(*)
(*)
>> Rosemary: ON THIS THURSDAY
NIGHT AN AMBASSADOR WALKS BACK
CONTENTIOUS COMMENTS BUT
KEEPS HIS CHANGE.
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: MAKING A CHANGE BE
WOULD NOT HELP TO RELEASE THOSE
CANADIANS.
>> Rosemary: HOW MUCH DAMAGE
DID JOHN McCALLUM DO?
"AT ISSUE" IS HERE TO BREAK IT
ALL DOWN.
>> STANDING IN SUPPORT OF AN
ILLEGAL COUP IS SHAMEFUL AND
UNACCEPTABLE.
>> Andrew: HOW THE TURMOIL IN
VENEZUELA IS TURNING CANADIAN
POLITICS.
CAN THE N.D.P. FIND A UNIFIED
MESSAGE?
>> IT'S A MADE-UP VALUE.
>> Ian: AND DOES THE WIND CHILL
FACTOR REALLY HELP TO MEASURE
HOW COLD IT IS?
THE HOTTEST DEBATE OF THE
WINTER.
>>> THIS IS "THE NATIONAL."
(*)
>>> BUT WE BEGIN TONIGHT WITH A
BREAKING STORY FROM KINGSTON,
ONTARIO.
THE RCMP AND LOCAL POLICE HAVE
RAIDED MULTIPLE RESIDENCES AND
HAVE MADE ARRESTS IN WHAT IS
BEING CALLED A NATIONAL SECURITY
INVESTIGATION.
WE'VE BEEN DIGGING FOR THE
DETAILS AND SOME ARE EMERGING.
LET'S BRING IN OUR NATIONAL
AFFAIRS EDITOR CHRIS HALL.
CHRIS, WHAT DO WE KNOW TO THIS
POINT?
>> WELL, IAN, THE INVESTIGATION
IS STILL ONGOING AND THERE WAS A
BRIEFING ON WHAT THE NEXT STEPS
WILL BE.
WE KNOW THIS -- THAT TWO PEOPLE
ARE UNDER ARREST AND ONE IS A
MINOR.
THERE WERE RAIDS ON A NUMBER OF
HOMES AS YOU NOTED IN THE
INTRODUCTION.
POLICE SAY THAT THE SITUATION IS
CONTAINED AND THAT THERE'S NO
IMMINENT THREAT TO CANADIANS AND
THAT THE THREAT LEVEL FOR THE
COUNTRY REMAINS UNCHANGED AT
MEDIUM.
TONIGHT PUBLIC SAFETY MINISTER
RALPH GOODALE PUT OUT THIS
STATEMENT.
HE SAID... "CANADIANS CAN BE
CONFIDENT THAT WHENEVER CREDIBLE
INFORMATION IS OBTAINED ABOUT A
POTENTIAL THREAT, THE RCMP AND
C.S.I.S. AND OTHER POLICE AND
SECURITY AGENCIES TAKE THE
APPROPRIATE STEPS TO ENSURE THE
SECURITY OF THIS COUNTRY AND THE
SAFETY OF ITS CITIZENS."
NOW AS FOR THIS PARTICULAR
INVESTIGATION, CANADIAN
OFFICIALS TELL US THAT IT'S BEEN
GOING ON FOR MONTHS AND LED BY
THE RCMP IN CONJUNCTION WITH
KINGSTON POLICE AND THE F.B.I.
THAT THERE WAS AERIAL
SURVEILLANCE BY AN RCMP PLANE
AND WE KNOW THAT BECAUSE IT WAS
FLYING SO LOW AND IT WAS SO LOUD
THAT NEIGHBOURS BEGAN TO
COMPLAIN.
AND ONE OF THEM TOOK A PHOTO OF
IT THAT CAPTURED ON THE RADAR
THE CALL LETTERS ON THE BACK OF
THE PLANE THAT INDICATED THAT IT
WAS AN RCMP PLANE BEING USED IN
THIS INVESTIGATION.
>> Ian: IMPORTANT TO NOTE AS YOU
POINTED OUT THAT THERE'S NO
IMMINENT THREAT, SAYS THE
GOVERNMENT.
BUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT HERE?
>> Reporter: WELL, THERE'S
GOING TO BE A NEWS CONFERENCE
ABOUT MID-DAY TOMORROW WHEN
WE'LL I ASSUME LEARN WHO IS
CHARGED AND THE EXACT NATURE OF
THE INVESTIGATION AND WHAT
THREATS OR WHAT CONCERNS THERE
WERE.
AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT THE RCMP
IS PLANNING TO PUT OUT ANOTHER
RELEASE IN THE MORNING.
BUT AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW WE'RE
STILL TRYING TO WORK OUT JUST
WHAT EXACTLY THE NATURE OF THIS
INVESTIGATION IS AND WHAT WAS
THE CONCERN THAT LED TO THESE
ARRESTS TONIGHT.
>> Ian: ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU,
CHRIS.
OUR NATIONAL AFFAIRS EDITOR,
CHRIS HALL IN OTTAWA.
AND, OF COURSE, WE'LL BE
FOLLOWING THIS STORY THROUGHOUT
THE NIGHT LIGHT HERE ON "THE
NATIONAL."
>> Rosemary: CANADA'S
AMBASSADOR TO CHINA TOOK BACK
REMARKS ABOUT MENG WANZHOU'S
EXTRADITION CASE, COMMENTS THAT
CAUSED A STIR IN OTTAWA AND IN
WASHINGTON AND IN BEIJING.
JOHN McCALLUM HAS NOW
APOLOGIZED.
AND THE PRIME MINISTER SAID THAT
HE HAS NO PLANS TO FIRE
McCALLUM DESPITE CALLS FOR HIM
TO DO JUST THAT.
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: AND AS I SAID THAT I
THINK THAT MISS MENG HAS QUITE A
STRONG CASE.
>>> Reporter: OVER 40 MINUTES
ON TUESDAY, CANADA'S AMBASSADOR
TO CHINA REPEATEDLY ADVOCATED
FOR MENG WANZHOU'S RELEASE.
NOW HE'S TRYING TO WALK BACK
THOSE COMMENTS AND SAYING THAT
IT WAS ALL A MISTAKE.
IN A STATEMENT JOHN McCALLUM
WROTE...
>> Reporter: McCALLUM'S
EARLIER COMMENTS UNDERMINED THE
PRIME MINISTER WHO FOR WEEKS HAS
SAID THAT THERE WOULD BE NO
POLITICAL INTERFERENCE IN MENG'S
CASE.
STILL, JUSTIN TRUDEAU IS
STANDING BY HIS EMBATTLED
AMBASSADOR.
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: OUR FOCUS IS ENTIRELY
ON GETTING THOSE CANADIANS HOME
SAFE AND MAKING SURE THAT ALL OF
THEIR RIGHTS ARE RESPECTED AND I
DON'T SEE -- AND MAKING A CHANGE
WOULD NOT HELP RELEASE THOSE
CANADIANS A DAY SOONER.
>> Reporter: MENG'S ARREST IN
DECEMBER AT THE REQUEST OF THE
U.S. HAS TRIGGERED A SEVERE
BACKLASH FROM CHINA.
TWO CANADIANS HAVE BEEN DETAINED
AND A THIRD ORDERED EXECUTED
OVER DRUG CHARGES.
WHILE THE GOVERNMENT TRIES TO
EASE THOSE TENSIONS, CALLS ARE
GETTING LOUDER FOR TRUDEAU TO
REPLACE McCALLUM.
>> BUT WHAT I THINK MIGHT HAPPEN
AND SHOULD HAPPEN IS THAT THE
GOVERNMENT LOOKS TO ITS BULLPEN
AND IT LOOKS TO THE NEXT
AMBASSADOR AND THAT MAYBE THERE
IS AN EARLY TRANSFER IN THE LATE
SPRING OR THE SUMMER.
>> Reporter: THE POLITICAL
FALLOUT SO FAR IS QUITE HARSH,
BUT THIS EXTRADITION EXPERT SAYS
THAT FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT
THAT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE
U.S. CASE AGAINST MENG HAS BEEN
TAINTED.
>> I THINK THAT IT'S SIMPLY AS I
SAID AT THE BEGINNING A
COMMONSENSICAL VIEW OF THE FACTS
AS WE KNOW IT TODAY.
IT'S A VERY WEAK EXTRADITION
CASE.
BUT, OF COURSE, THAT HAS TO BE
TESTED IN THE COURT.
>> Reporter: CANADA IS NOW
WAITING FOR U.S. AUTHORITIES TO
FILE THE PROPER PAPERWORK AHEAD
OF MENG'S NEXT COURT APPEARANCE
IN FEBRUARY.
ROSIE?
>> Rosemary: ALL RIGHT, KATIE,
ARE WE GETTING A SENSE AT THIS
POINT WHETHER THE AMERICANS ARE
UPSET OR ANGRY ABOUT JOHN
McCALLUM'S COMMENTS?
>> Reporter: AFTER
McCALLUM'S COMMENTS REALLY
STARTED PICKING UP TRACTION, A
SENIOR SOURCE TELLS ME THAT THE
CANADIAN EMBASSY IN WASHINGTON
URGENTLY STARTED REACHING OUT TO
SENIOR AMERICAN OFFICIALS TO TRY
TO REASSURE THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION THAT CANADA'S
OFFICIAL POSITION HAD NOT
CHANGED.
EMPHASIZING THAT CANADA IS A
RULE OF LAW COUNTRY AND THAT
THERE WOULD BE NO POLITICAL
INTERFERENCE IN THIS CASE.
SO FAR THERE ARE NO EXPLICIT
COMPLAINTS FROM THE AMERICANS TO
REPORT.
ROSIE?
>> Rosemary: ALL RIGHT, KATIE
SIMPSON TRACKING THIS STORY YET
AGAIN TONIGHT HERE IN OTTAWA.
THANK YOU.
>> Reporter: THANKS.
>> Rosemary: WE HAVE NEW
DETAILS TODAY ON THE CASE OF A
CANADIAN SENTENCED TO DEATH LAST
WEEK IN CHINA ON DRUG SMUGGLING
CHARGES.
ROBERT SCHELLENBERG'S LAWYER
TOLD CBC NEWS THAT HE'LL APPEAL
THAT SENTENCE THIS COMING
SUNDAY, ONE DAY BEFORE TIME RUNS
OUT.
HIS LAWYER SAYS THAT
SCHELLENBERG HAS REMAINED CALM
SINCE RECEIVING THE VERDICT AND
HE WAS ABLE TO MEET CANADIAN
CONSULAR OFFICIALS TWO DAYS AGO.
THE APPEAL THOUGH COULD TAKE
MONTHS.
SO WHAT CAN THE GOVERNMENT DO TO
HELP THESE CANADIANS IN CHINA?
WHAT CAN WE READ INTO
McCALLUM'S MIXED MESSAGES?
CHANTAL AND ERIC AND ANDREW ARE
HERE FOR "AT ISSUE."
>> TO THE U.S. THOUGH WHERE THE
ONLY CERTAINTY ON DAY 34 OF THE
GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN STANDOFF IS
THAT IT WILL GO INTO A 35th
DAY.
EVEN AS DONALD TRUMP SEEMED TO
SIGNAL A POSSIBLE COMPROMISE ON
THAT KEY STICKING POINT --
FUNDING FOR THE MEXICO BORDER
WALL.
>> President Donald Trump: ONE
OF THE IDEAS SUGGESTED IS THEY
OPEN IT AND THEY PAY SORT OF A
PRO--RATED DOWN PAYMENT FOR THE
WALL, WHICH I
THINK THAT PEOPLE AGREE THAT YOU
NEED.
>> Rosemary: NANCY PELOSI
CALLED IT "UNREASONABLE" SO THE
U.S. SENATE VOTED ON TWO
COMPETING BILLS TO REOPEN THE
GOVERNMENT -- ONE DEMOCRATIC AND
ONE REPUBLICAN.
BOTH OF THEM THOUGH DEFEATED.
AND AS KEITH BOAG TELLS US,
CONCERNS ARE MOUNTING THAT
GETTING A DEAL TO FLY COULD BE A
MATTER OF LIFE-AND-DEATH.
>> Reporter: AFTER 34 DAYS,
AIR SAFETY IS A MAIN TALKING
POINT --
>> WHEN DO WE WANT IT?
>> NOW!
>> Reporter: -- IN THE
GOVERNMENT
SHUTDOWN.
>> NO ONE WILL GET OUT OF THIS
UNSCATHED IF WE DO NOT STOP THIS
SHUTDOWN.
>> Reporter: THE PRESIDENT OF
THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS'
ASSOCIATION IS WARNING SOMETHING
TRAGIC COULD HAPPEN IF THE
GOVERNMENT IS NOT SOON RETURNED
TO ITS FULLY UPRIGHT POSITION.
>> LEADER McCONNELL, YOU CAN
FIX THIS TODAY.
>> Reporter: SEVERAL POLLS
HAVE FOUND THAT AMERICANS
OVERWHELMINGLY BLAME MITCH
McCONNELL'S SENATE REPUBLICANS
AND PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR THE
SHUTDOWN.
THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS AND THE
PILOTS AND AIR TRAFFIC
CONTROLLERS AND THE AIRPORT
SECURITY PEOPLE ALL WARNING THAT
THE SHUTDOWN ENDANGERS THE
PUBLIC.
AND THE TRUMP
ADMINISTRATION HASN'T HELPED
ITSELF BY SOUNDING DEAF TO THE
OTHER REALITIES OF ORDINARY
LIVES MUCH.
>> AM I OUT OF TOUCH?
I DON'T THINK THAT I'M OUT OF
TOUCH.
I AM ADDRESSING THE PROBLEM.
I HAVE MET WITH MY INDIVIDUAL
STAFF MEMBERS AND, GOD BLESS
THEM, THEY'RE WORKING FOR FREE
THEY'RE VOLUNTEERING.
>> Reporter: MR. SECRETARY,
THERE ARE SOME REPORTS
THAT THERE'S SOME FEDERAL
WORKERS GOING TO HOMELESS
SHELTERS TO GET FOOD?
>> WELL, I KNOW THEY ARE AND I
DON'T REALLY QUITE UNDERSTAND
WHY.
THERE IS NO REAL REASON WHY THEY
SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET A LOAN
AGAINST IT.
>> Reporter: ALL OF THAT HAD
THE TOP DEMOCRAT IN THE HOUSE
REFERENCING MARIE ANTOINETTE.
>> IS THIS THEM "LET THEM EAT
CAKE" ATTITUDE?
OR CALL YOUR FATHER FOR MONEY?
>> Reporter: THE SENATE
DEFEATED TWO BILLS TO RE-OPEN
THE GOVERNMENT THIS AFTERNOON
BUT THE PRESIDENT SAID THAT HE
HAD EXPECTED THAT.
>> President Donald Trump: I
HAVE OTHER ALTERNATIVES IF I
HAVE TO AND I WILL USE THOSE
ALTERNATIVES IF I HAVE TO.
>> Reporter: CNN IS REPORTING
TONIGHT THAT THE WHITE HOUSE HAS
ALREADY DRAFTED A PROCLAMATION
DECLARING A NATIONAL EMERGENCY
AT THE U.S. SOUTHERN BORDER AND
A PLAN, TO BY-PASS GOVERNMENT
AND TO DIVERT $7 BILLION FROM
VARIOUS GOVERNMENT OFFICES TO
BUILD A WALL.
TOMORROW THE ALREADY RECORD LONG
SHUTDOWN WILL SET A NEW RECORD.
KEITH BOAG, CBC NEWS,
WASHINGTON.
>> Rosemary: SO WHILE
PARALYSIS CONTINUES IN
WASHINGTON, ANDREW, IT SEEMS
THAT THERE'S A NEW KIND OF
STALEMATE TONIGHT IN VENEZUELA?
>> Andrew: YEAH, ROSIE, BUT
IT'S HARD TO KNOW WHICH WAY IT
WILL TIP.
IT'S BEEN A DAY SINCE TENS OF
THOUSANDS TOOK TO THE STREETS
AND THE OPPOSITION LEADER
DECLARED HIMSELF PRESIDENT BUT
NICOLÁS MADURO REMAINS IN
CHARGE.
MILITARY MEMBERS ARE FIRMLY
BEHIND HIM.
AND HIS RIVAL, THE MAN WHO WOULD
BE PRESIDENT, JUAN GUIADÓ,
IS OFF THE RADAR AND APPARENTLY
FEARING ARREST.
THE REST OF THE WORLD, INCLUDING
CANADA, HAS CHOSEN SIDES IN THIS
STANDOFF AND WE'LL EXPLAIN WHICH
SIDES AND WHY.
BUT FIRST WE TURN TO PAUL HUNTER
WHO TAKES US INSIDE OF A COUNTRY
DIVIDED, UNCERTAIN AND UNEASY.
>> Reporter: THE REMNANTS OF
YESTERDAY'S MEGA-ANTI-GOVERNMENT
DEMONSTRATIONS IN CARACAS --
BURNT VEHICLES, SHATTERED
STOREFRONTS AND EVER LINGERING
FURY AND FRUSTRATION.
>> [SPEAKING SPANISH]
>> Reporter: THE COUNTRY IS
WAKING UP SAD TODAY, SAID THIS
MAN.
MOST VENEZUELANS SAY THAT MADURO
IS ILLEGITIMATE.
NICOLAS MADURO REMAINS THE
PRESIDENT TODAY, AT LEAST IN HIS
EYES, BUT FOR COUNTLESS WHO DEEM
HIS ELECTION LAST YEAR RIGGED,
WHO BLAME
HIM FOR THE COUNTRY'S EXTREME
ECONOMIC MISERY, THE KEY MOMENT
IN YESTERDAY'S PROTESTS WHEN THE
OPPOSITION LEADER JUAN GUIADÓ
DECLARED HIMSELF ACTING
PRESIDENT.
QUICKLY RECOGNISED BY CANADA,
THE U.S. AND OTHERS, BUT
SIGNIFICANTLY NOT BY VENEZUELA'S
POWERFUL MILITARY.
ON VENEZUELAN TV TODAY MULTIPLE
PLEDGES OF SUPPORT FOR MADURO.
SAID THE DEFENCE MINISTER...
>> [SPEAKING SPANISH]
>> Reporter: WE ARE HERE TO
AVOID CONFRONTATION.
THIS IS AS TENSIONS WITH THE
U.S. GROW.
VENEZUELA TODAY CLOSED ALL OF
ITS DIPLOMATIC OFFICES IN THE
U.S.
AND THE WHITE HOUSE HAS MADE
CLEAR TODAY, LABELLING HIM
PROFOUNDLY CORRUPT THAT IT WANTS
MADURO GONE.
THE QUESTION IS HOW.
>> President Donald Trump: WE
HAVE WORKED CLOSELY ON
VENEZUELA.
VERY CLOSELY.
>> Reporter: DONALD TRUMP HAS
NOT RULED OUT MILITARY ACTION
BUT FOR NOW THE FOCUS IS
ECONOMIC PRESSURE, INCLUDING
DIVERTING MONEY FOR VENEZUELAN
OIL AWAY FROM MADURO AND INTO
THE HANDS OF GUIADÓ, IF THAT IS
POSSIBLE.
>> WE THINK THAT CONSISTENT WITH
OUR RECOGNITION OF JUAN GUIADÓ
AS THE CONSTITUTIONAL INTERIM
PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA THAT
THOSE REVENUES SHOULD GO TO THE
LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT.
>> Reporter: MEANWHILE THOSE
PROTESTS YESTERDAY UNDERLINE THE
REAL FEAR IN CARACAS TONIGHT
THAT ALL OF THIS MAY SOON ONLY
GET WORSE.
PAUL HUNTER, CBC NEWS,
WASHINGTON.
>> Andrew: NOW MANY COUNTRIES
HAVE PICKED THEIR SIDE IN THE
VENEZUELAN CRISIS -- RUSSIA,
TURKEY, SYRIA, CHINA.
THEY ALL CONTINUE TO BACK
NICOLAS MADURO.
MEXICO'S GOVERNMENT DOES AS WELL
FOR THE TIME BEING, ACCORDING TO
ITS STATEMENT.
ON THE OTHER SIDE, CANADA, THE
U.S. AND SEVERAL COUNTRIES
THROUGHOUT LATIN AMERICA, THEY
OPENLY SUPPORT JUAN GUIADÓ.
THE EUROPEAN UNION IS MORE
CAUTIOUS, NOT BACKING GUIADÓ
EXPLICITLY BUT INSTEAD SAYING
THEY SUPPORT THE COUNTRY'S
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY AND DEMOCRATIC
FORCES IN THE COUNTRY.
NOW CANADA'S DECLARATION OF
SUPPORT FOR GUIADÓ WAS SWIFT,
UNEQUIVOCAL, AND CONTENTIOUS.
BECAUSE SOME ARE WONDERING WHY
HIM, WHAT CLAIM DOES HE REALLY
HAVE?
EVAN DYER EXPLORES HOW THAT
DECISION WAS MADE.
>> Reporter: CANADA SAYS THAT
GUIADÓ HAS MORE LEGITIMACY
THAN THE GOVERNMENT REPRESENTED
IN EMBASSY BECAUSE HE'S THE MOST
SENIOR ELECTED OFFICIAL IN THE
COUNTRY THAT CAN TRACE HIS
MANDATE BACK TO THE MORE OR LESS
FREE ELECTION.
THAT VOTE PRODUCED A LARGE
OPPOSITION MAJORITY, AND THE
OPPOSITION FOUND ITS VICTORY AT
THE POLLS WAS SHORT-LIVED.
THE MADURO GOVERNMENT WAS NOT
WILLING TO LIVE WITH THE
LEGISLATURE.
THEY STRIPPED THE ASSEMBLY OF
ITS POWER.
AND THE AMBASSADOR AT CARACAS AT
THE TIME?
...
>> VENEZUELA HAS NOT HAD A
CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER SINCE ABOUT
JULY 2017 WHEN THE PRESIDENT --
PRESIDENT MADURO SUSPENDED THE
EXISTING CONSTITUTION BY
CREATING ANOTHER BODY AND GIVING
THEM ABSOLUTE POWERS.
>> Reporter: MADURO HAD
ANOTHER PROBLEM TO FIX -- HIS
OWN TERM AS PRESIDENT WAS
ENDING.
>> SO HE ESSENTIALLY DIRECTED
HIS OWN RE-ELECTION IN 2018.
AND THE VENEZUELAN PEOPLE DIDN'T
BUY IT.
THEY DIDN'T EVEN SHOW UP IN THE
POLLS.
THERE WAS SOMETHING LIKE 20%
TURNOUT BECAUSE IT WAS SO
OBVIOUSLY A FARCE TO THE PEOPLE
OF VENEZUELA.
>> Reporter: THE CONSTITUTION
SAYS THAT IF THE PRESIDENCY IS
VACANT THE PRESIDENT OF THE
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY TAKES OVER
UNTIL NEW ELECTIONS.
THAT IS JUAN GUIADÓ.
THAT IS WHERE GUIADÓ IS
PRESENTING A PROBLEM FOR THE
N.D.P.
>> THIS GUY WHO SHOWS UP IN THE
MIDDLE OF THE SQUARE AND SAYS I
AM NOW THE PRESIDENT OF
VENEZUELA -- I MEAN, THIS IS
ABSURD AND IT IS OFFENSIVE.
AND I'M ABSOLUTELY CONFIDENT
THAT IT'S JUST ONE MORE IN A
LONG LITANY OF ATTEMPTS BY THE
UNITED STATES TO RUN THE SHOW.
THEY'VE GOT SOME OF THE BIGGEST
OIL RESERVES IN THE WORLD IN
VENEZUELA.
IS THAT PART OF WHAT'S GOING ON?
YOU BET IT IS.
>> Reporter: N.D.P. LEADER
JAGMEET SINGH SENT OUT A
NONCOMMITTAL MESSAGE THAT DIDN'T
ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF WHOM CANADA
SHOULD RECOGNIZE.
BUT M.P.s AND CANDIDATES WERE
ALREADY GOING ROGUE.
THEY WERE TWEETING
OUT MESSAGES OF HANDS OFF
VENEZUELA.
BY DAY'S END THE PARTY CLARIFIED
THEY CONSIDER MADURO A THUG BUT
WOULD HAVE CONTINUED TO
RECOGNIZE HIM.
EVAN DYER, CBC NEWS, OTTAWA.
>> Andrew: FOR ALL OF THOSE
COUNTRIES TAKING SIDE, LOTS
AREN'T AND JUST LOOK FOR THE
SUPPORT FOR REGIME CHANGE IN
THAT COUNTRY.
IT'S MESSY.
AND WASHINGTON SUPPORTED HIM,
AND A POPULAR COUP SENT THEM
PACKING TO MIAMI AND BROUGHT
DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT TO
VENEZUELA.
AND IN THE 1990s, THE ELECTED
GOVERNMENT'S AUSTERITY
PROGRAMMES WERE DEEPLY
UNPOPULAR.
A LITTLE KNOWN MILITARY OFFICER
AT THE TIME BY THE NAME OF HUGO
CHAVEZ TRIED AND FAILED TO SEIZE
POWER IN 1992.
THE U.S. OPPOSED THAT COUP.
>> THIS MILITARY COUP ATTEMPT IS
FIRMLY CONDEMNED.
>> Andrew: A DECADE LATER
CHAVEZ WAS THE ELECTED PRESIDENT
OF VENEZUELA.
HE WAS POPULAR BUT DIVISIVE.
TOP MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY
STAGED A COUP BUT WITHIN HOURS
LOWER-RANKING OFFICERS HELPED TO
RESTORE HIM TO POWER.
>> [SPEAKING SPANISH]
>> Andrew: THIS TIME AROUND
THE U.S. WOULD HAVE CLEARLY
PREFERRED THAT THE COUP SUCCEED.
>> THE CHAVEZ GOVERNMENT
PROVOKED THIS CRISIS.
>> Andrew: WITH CHAVEZ THEN,
AND MADURO NOW, FOREIGN SUPPORT
FOR CHANGE WILL LIKELY ONLY GO
SO FAR.
IT'S WHAT HAPPENS INSIDE OF THE
COUNTRY THAT WILL BE DECISIVE.
AND ONE LAST NOTE ON THIS, JUAN
GUIADÓ DID SPEAK TODAY FROM AN
UNDISCLOSED LOCATION.
FOR THOSE WILLING TO ABANDON
MADURO HE PROMISED AMNESTY.
>> Ian: WE'RE LIVE HERE TONIGHT
ON "THE NATIONAL," FOLLOWING A
NUMBER OF
DEVELOPING STORIES.
OFFICIALS ARE TRYING TO FIGURE
OUT WHAT CAUSED A DOZEN
PASSENGERS TO FALL ILL AFTER
BOARDING A PLANE IN QUÉBEC CITY
THIS MORNING.
THERE WERE 185 PASSENGERS ON
BOARD THE FLIGHT BOUND FOR
FLORIDA.
IT WAS STILL ON THE GROUND BEING
DE-ICED WHEN SOMETHING WENT
WRONG WITH THE VENTILATION
SYSTEM.
12 PEOPLE STARTED FEELING SICK
AND SOME WERE NAUSEOUS AND
VOMITING.
AND OTHERS SAID THAT THEIR EYES
AND THROATS WERE BURNING.
THE PLANE WAS EVACUATED AND 10
PASSENGERS WERE SENT TO
HOSPITAL.
THE AIRLINE SAYS THAT IT'S
INVESTIGATING.
>>> A MANHUNT UNDERWAY IN
MONTRÉAL TONIGHT FOLLOWING THE
FATAL SHOOTING OF A REAL ESTATE
DEVELOPER LINKED TO THE MAFIA.
IT HAPPENED THIS MORNING AT A
BUILDING UNDER CONSTRUCTION.
POLICE HAVE NOT IDENTIFIED THE
VICTIM BUT
MULTIPLE SOURCES HAVE TOLD CBC
THAT IT WAS TONY MAGI.
HE'S SURVIVED NUMEROUS ATTEMPTS
ON HIS LIFE BEFORE, INCLUDING A
SHOOTING IN 2008.
NO ARRESTS HAVE BEEN MADE.
>> Andrew: AHEAD TONIGHT ON
"THE NATIONAL"... WE WILL
CONTINUE OUR SERIES ON SLEEP
WITH A SOLUTION IF YOU'RE
TOSSING AND TURNING.
YOU WILL MEET A CANADIAN WRITER
WHO VERY MUCH WANTS HIS STORIES
TO PUT YOU TO SLEEP.
>> Rosemary: OH, EXCELLENT.
FIRST THOUGH WHEN IT COMES TO
THE FORECAST DO YOU RELY ON THE
WIND CHILL TO FIGURE OUT HOW
COLD IT'S GOING TO BE?
WHY SOME METEROLOGISTS SAY
THAT'S NOT WORTH YOUR TIME.
WHATEVER!
>> Ian: AND A TERRIFYING MORNING
FOR A FAMILY IN TORONTO.
THEY WOKE UP TO FIND THEIR
BASEMENT APARTMENT WAS FLOODING.
THE WATER WAS RISING FAST.
>> AND WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO
DO.
MY DAUGHTER, SHE CRIED OUT,
THERE'S WATER IN THE HOUSE.
BY THE TIME SHE CRIED THAT THE
WATER REACHED
(*)
>> Andrew: WELL, YOUR TYPICAL
JANUARY ALWAYS HAS PLENTY OF
WAYS TO MAKE LIFE MISERABLE,
RIGHT?
BUT ONE TORONTO FAMILY IN
PARTICULAR HAS BEEN THROUGH A
WRINGER AFTER A BROKEN WATER
MAIN EFFECTIVELY TURNED THEIR
HOME INTO A SINKING SHIP.
>> I SEE MY KIDS' LIVES IN FRONT
OF ME, JUST TAKEN AWAY FROM ME.
I DON'T KNOW, I'M SO TRAUMATIZED
RIGHT NOW.
>> Andrew: THE GILBERTS LIVE
IN THE BASEMENT APARTMENT OF A
WEST END HIGH RISE AND WHEN
THEIR HOME SUDDENLY FLOODED
OVERNIGHT THEY WERE LUCKY TO
ESCAPE BECAUSE THEY HAD NO IDEA
THAT IT WAS EVEN HAPPENING UNTIL
TINA GILBERT GOT UP TO USE THE
BATHROOM AT 2:00 IN THE MORNING.
>> IT WAS COLD AND THE WATER WAS
RIGHT HERE WHEN I WOKE UP.
>> Andrew: THE ADULTS WERE
ABLE TO GET TO THE CHILDREN'S
ROOM AND WAKE THEM UP BUT NOT
BEFORE THE WATER HIT WAIST
LEVEL, FORCING THE ENTIRE FAMILY
TO WRIGGLE OUT THROUGH A STREET
LEVEL WINDOW.
>> WHEN WE ARRIVED WE COULDN'T
EVEN OPEN UP THE DOOR BECAUSE
THE WATER LEVEL WAS SO HIGH IN
THE
APARTMENT THAT THE PRESSURE WAS
KEEPING THE DOOR CLOSED.
>> Andrew: HAD THE CREWS NOT
QUICKLY CUT THE POWER THE FAMILY
COULD HAVE BEEN ELECTROCUTED.
>> BUT WE ARE OUT WITH OUR LIFE.
WE ARE HERE, YEAH, THAT IS IT.
>> Andrew: THE FAMILY HAS A
TEMPORARY UNIT TO STAY IN BUT
NOW THEY'RE WEIGHING THEIR
OPTIONS.
NOW TORONTONIANS ARE FAR FROM
THE ONLY ONES STRUGGLING WITH
MISERABLE WEATHER.
MONTRÉALERS COULD HARDLY KEEP
THEIR HEADS ABOVE WATER, SO TO
SPEAK.
AFTER A WINTER THAW, DOZENS OF
SCHOOLS WERE CLOSED WHILE THE
WORKERS TRIED TO CLEAR THE
SLUSHY WATER.
DRIVING WAS ESPECIALLY TRICKY,
EVEN FOR LARGE TRANSIT VEHICLES.
AND IT'S ALL EXPECTED TO TAKE
ANOTHER PUNISHING TURN TOMORROW.
FROM A HIGH OF 3° TODAY THE
TEMPERATURE IS EXPECTED TO DROP
TO ABOUT -17° WITH THE WIND
CHILL.
WHICH WILL TURN ALL OF THIS BACK
INTO ICE, CREATING MORE CHAOS
AND MAYBE MORE SCHOOL CLOSURES.
NOW ABOUT THAT WIND CHILL, WE
ALL KNOW WHAT IT MEANS, RIGHT?
THE IDEA THAT WHATEVER THE
TEMPERATURE IS, THAT THE WIND
CAN
MAKE IT FEEL COLDER.
IT'S BEEN IN PLACE FOR ALMOST
TWO DECADES AND IT'S A WAY TO
GET A BETTER SENSE OF HOW MANY
EXTRA LAYERS THAT WE SHOULD PUT
ON WHEN WE GO OUTSIDE.
BUT AS CAMERON MacINTOSH
EXPLAINS, SOME EXPERTS SAY THAT
IT'S INACCURATE AND MISLEADING.
>> Reporter: ON A BRIGHT AND
COLD WINTER DAY WHEN MOST ARE
HAPPY TO BE INSIDE... GERLENE
KARR IS LEARNING TO SKATE IN THE
DEAD OF HER FIRST CANADIAN
WINTER.
HOW COLD ARE YOU RIGHT NOW?
>> IT'S VERY COLD.
>> Reporter: WHAT IS THE
TEMPERATURE?
>> -27°.
>> Reporter: CLOSE, -26°.
THE FIRST RULE OF LIFE IN A REAL
WINTER CITY?
CHECK THE FORECAST.
>> AS LONG AS YOU'RE DRESSED
APPROPRIATELY IT'S GREAT.
>> Reporter: HERE AT THE FORKS
IN WINNIPEG, ENVIRONMENT
CANADA'S WEATHER STATION IS
READING A TEMPERATURE RIGHT NOW
OF -26°.
HOWEVER, THERE'S ANOTHER NUMBER
THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE FOCUSED
ON -33°.
THAT'S THE WIND CHILL, A MEASURE
THAT MANY METEROLOGISTS JUST
AREN'T COMFORTABLE WITH.
>> WIND CHILL IS NOT ACTUALLY
MEASURABLE.
WIND CHILL IS DERIVED FROM THE
TEMPERATURE MEASUREMENT AND THE
WIND MEASUREMENT.
SO IT'S A
MADE-UP VALUE.
>> Reporter: WIND CHILL IS A
COMPLEX EQUATION FACTORING WIND
CHILL AND TEMPERATURE, WITH A
HEAT LOSS THAT OFTEN SOUNDS MUCH
COLDER THAN IT ACTUALLY IS.
>> * 15 BELOW
>> Reporter: SO CONTRARY TO
FOLKLORE AND RANDY BACHMANN,
PORTAGE AND MAIN MAY
FEEL LIKE -50° BUT IT'S NEVER
HIT ACTUALLY -50°.
METEROLOGIST SCOTT KEHLER IS
CALLING FOR A DIFFERENT MEASURE.
>> THE TIME THAT IT TAKES SKIN
TO FREEZE IS MAKING MORE SENSE.
>> Reporter: ENVIRONMENT
CANADA'S DAVID PHILLIPS ARGUES
THAT IT'S RELATABLE.
THERE'S JUST SOMETHING
ABOUT -38°.
>> TO ME THAT WILL SCARE THE
BEJEEBIES OUT OF PEOPLE.
AND WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO DO
THAT AND PROVIDE CANADIANS WITH
MAYBE AN IMPERFECT BUT A USEFUL
MEASURE SO IT ALLOWS THEM TO
MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION.
>> Reporter: IN KAUR'S CASE,
THAT MEANS WEARING MORE CLOTHES
THAN, WELL, EVER.
AND FOCUSING ON THE SKATING
LESSON RATHER THAN A SCIENCE
LESSON.
AFTER ALL, AT SOME POINT COLD IS
JUST COLD.
CAMERON MacINTOSH, CBC NEWS,
WINNIPEG.
>> Ian: I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT
LEAVES US.
I HAVE BEEN IN -30° WITH WIND
AND WITHOUT WIND AND IT'S
DIFFERENT WITH WIND.
WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW IT
MEASURE THAT.
>> Andrew: WELL, COLD IS JUST
COLD, I THINK HE GOT IT RIGHT.
>> Ian: AHEAD ON "THE
NATIONAL"... IT TURNS OUT ASK
AND YOU
YOU JUST MIGHT RECEIVE.
HOW A HALIFAX MAN LANDED ON
STAGE WITH BRYAN ADAMS LAST
NIGHT.
>> Rosemary: COOL.
FIRST THOUGH IT'S "AT ISSUE"
NIGHT, AND ANDREW AND CHANTAL
AND ERIC ARE ALL HERE WITH JOHN
McCALLUM'S MIXED MESSAGES ON
CHINA.
THAT'S RIGHT AFTER THE BREAK.
(*)
(*)
>> Ian: WE'RE LIVE ON "THE
NATIONAL" WITH AN UPDATE ON
NORTHERN
CALIFORNIA'S DEADLY WILDFIRES.
INVESTIGATORS SAY THAT A PRIVATE
ELECTRICAL SYSTEM IS TO BLAME
FOR THE TUBBS FIRE THAT KILLED
22 PEOPLE AND CHARRED NEARLY
15,000 HECTARES.
THAT IS GOOD NEWS FOR THE
BELEAGUERED FACILITY, PACIFIC
GAS AND ELECTRIC, THAT HAS BEEN
LINKED TO
17 OTHER BLAZES ACROSS THE STATE
THAT YEAR AND IT MAY FILE FOR
BANKRUPTCY.
>> I AM INNOCENT OF ANY
CRIMINALITY WHATSOEVER.
>> Ian: SCOTLAND'S FORMER FIRST
MINISTER ALEX SALMOND IS CHARGED
WITH MULTIPLE SEX OFFENSES,
INCLUDING ATTEMPTED RAPE.
THE 64-YEAR-OLD LED THE SCOTTISH
GOVERNMENT FOR SEVEN YEARS AND
WAS A DRIVING FORCE BEHIND
SCOTLAND'S 2014 BID FOR
INDEPENDENCE.
SALMOND HAS BEEN UNDER
INVESTIGATION FOR MONTHS
FOLLOWING ALLEGATIONS THAT HE
INAPPROPRIATELY TOUCHED FEMALE
GOVERNMENT STAFFERS.
(*)
>> I THINK THAT MISS MENG HAS
QUITE A STRONG CASE.
I NEVER EXPECTED THAT WE WOULD
HAVE THIS PROBLEM THROWN AT US.
>> Prime Minister Justin
Trudeau: OUR FOCUS IS ENTIRELY
ON GETTING THOSE CANADIANS HOME
SAFE AND MAKING SURE THAT ALL OF
THEIR RIGHTS ARE RESPECTED.
>> Andrew Scheer: IF I WERE
PRIME MINISTER I WOULD HAVE
FIRED JOHN McCALLUM.
>> Rosemary: OKAY, MIXED
MESSAGES ON CHINA.
CANADA'S
AMBASSADOR MAKES BOLD STATEMENTS
AS YOU HEARD THERE AND THEN
TAKES THEM BACK.
SO DID JOHN McCALLUM GO ROGUE?
AND HOW ARE THESE BIG ISSUES
LIKE THAT THIS FEUD WITH CHINA
CONTINUING TO MAKE LIFE
DIFFICULT FOR THE GOVERNMENT?
"AT ISSUE" IS HERE TO TACKLE
THESE QUESTIONS AND MORE,
CHANTAL HEBERT IS IN MONTRÉAL,
AND ANDREW COYNE IS IN OTTAWA
TONIGHT.
AND ÉRIC GRENIER IS ALSO IN
OTTAWA.
OKAY, LET'S START WITH JOHN
McCALLUM AND THE APOLOGY.
I JUST WANT TO READ VIEWERS A
PART OF IT THAT STRUCK ME.
HERE'S WHAT HE SAID IN HIS
STATEMENT.
HE SAYS, "I MISSPOKE.
THESE COMMENTS DO NOT
ACCURATELY REPRESENT MY POSITION
ON THIS ISSUE.
AS THE GOVERNMENT HAS
CONSISTENTLY MADE CLEAR, THERE
HAS BEEN NO POLITICAL
INVOLVEMENT IN THIS PROCESS."
UM, ANDREW, DO YOU BUY THAT?
>> WELL, IT'S DIFFICULT TO
BELIEVE THAT IT DOESN'T
REPRESENT HIS POSITION.
I SUPPOSE THE QUESTION IS DOES
IT REPRESENT THE GOVERNMENT'S
POSITION?
THERE'S THREE POSSIBILITIES
HERE.
ONE IS THAT HE WAS COMPLETELY
GOING ROGUE AND AT ODDS WITH THE
GOVERNMENT.
AND THE SECOND IS THAT HE WAS
SPEAKING FOR GOVERNMENT AND THIS
IS THE MESSAGE THAT THEY
INTENDED TO HAVE.
AND THEY NOW DENY THAT.
AND THIS IS SOMETHING IN THE
GOVERNMENT'S THINKING THEY
RATHER NOT TO BE DISCUSSED
PUBLICLY.
I THINK THAT IS WORTH CONTINUING
TO EXPLORE.
IF THE SUGGESTION -- LEAVE ASIDE
THE IMPUNING THE INTEGRITY OF
THE -- OF THE EXTRADITION
PROCESS AND
SEEMING TO LINE UP WITH THE
ARGUMENTS OF THE CHINESE
GOVERNMENT, EVEN AS THEY'RE
HOLDING THREE CANADIAN HOSTAGES.
IF THE SUGGESTION WAS -- AND I
THINK THAT IT WAS -- THAT AT THE
END OF THE DAY AFTER THE COURT
HAS RULED AND WHEN IT COMES
ACROSS THE MINISTER'S DESK WHO
HAS FINAL SAY ON THE EXTRADITION
TREATY THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME
DEAL THAT WE'D BE WILLING TO
STRIKE WHERE WE WOULD REFUSE TO
EXTRADITE -- OR THOUGH SHE WAS
OTHERWISE WORTHY TO BE
EXTRADITED, SOLELY TO GET THOSE
HOSTAGES BACK -- THAT SEEMS TO
ME TO BE DOING THE DEAL UNDER
THE THREAT.
THAT SEEMS TO ME TO BE PAYING
RANSOM FOR HOSTAGES, WHICH IS
SOMETHING THAT I DON'T THINK
THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE
DOING.
SO I THINK THAT THERE ARE STILL
MORE
QUESTIONS TO BE ASKED HERE WHO
HE WAS SPEAKING FOR HERE.
>> Rosemary: JUST TO BE CLEAR,
WHEN ANDREW IS TALKING ABOUT
HOSHOSTAGES, HE IS TALKING ABOUT
THE TWO MEN DETAINED UNDER
CHARGES THAT WE DO NOT KNOW.
THERE'S BEEN NO DUE PROCESS.
AND THEN A THIRD MAN WHO HAS NOW
BEEN SENTENCED TO DEATH IN THAT
CASE FOR DRUG TRAFFICKING.
CHANTAL, YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON ALL
OF THIS?
>> I TEND TO BELIEVE THAT
McCALLUM WENT OFF MESSAGE,
THAT THE WHOLE WORLD WAS SHOCKED
THAT HE WAS ON A MISSION TO SAY
THAT WE HAVE A SYSTEM WHERE THE
DECKS ARE NOT STACKED AGAINST
THE PERSON THAT IS BEING ASKED
TO BE EXTRADITED.
BUT THAT HE GOT CARRIED AWAY AND
UNVEILED HIS CARDS.
THE REASON THAT I DON'T BUY THAT
HE WAS ON A MISSION TO SEND A
MESSAGE THAT HE'S NOW WALKING
BACK IS THAT THIS IS THE KIND OF
THING AS AN AMBASSADOR THAT
SPEAKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT OF
CANADA HE COULD HAVE SAID
PRIVATELY TO THE CHINESE
AUTHORITIES.
HE DID NOT NEED TO GO TO MARKHAM
TO CALL IN SOME CHINESE SPEAKING
REPORTERS TO, TA-DA, UNVEIL THIS
POSITION.
IT MAY REFLECT SOMETHING THAT
THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA IS
READY TO DO, BUT IN ANY EVENT,
THE VENUE DOES NOT SUGGEST THAT
THAT IS WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE
HAPPENED.
>> Rosemary: IN THE VERY LEAST
IT REFLECTS HOW DIFFICULT THE
FILE IS, ERIC, THAT YOU CAN'T,
YOU KNOW, THAT IF YOU MAKE ONE
MIS-STEP ON THESE ISSUES WITH
CHINA THAT YOU CAN BE IN BIG
TROUBLE?
>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
AND WHEN I LOOK AT AN ISSUE LIKE
THIS I TEND TO SEE IT AS I SEE A
LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS THROUGH
THE
PRISM OF THE UPCOMING ELECTION.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE
DOMESTIC CONSIDERATIONING THAT
MIGHT HAVE GONE THROUGH
McCALLUM'S DECISION TO DO
THIS, AND GO ROGUE AS ANDREW
SAID, IS ONE OF THE
POSSIBILITIES.
OR IF THIS WAS SOMEHOW IN
CONJUNCTION WITH THE GOVERNMENT
OR THE LIBERAL PARTY, YOU KNOW,
FOR McCALLUM TO INVITE
CHINESE-LANGUAGE MEDIA BOTH FROM
CHINA AND FROM CANADA, AND TO GO
TO MARKHAM, YOU KNOW, THAT IS A
MEDIA OUTLET AND THOSE MEDIA
OUTLETS HAVE A HUGE REACH ACROSS
THE COUNTRY.
AND THE CHINESE-CANADIAN
COMMUNITY IS AN IMPORTANT
ELECTORATE FOR THE LIBERALS AND
FOR THE CONSERVATIVES.
THERE ARE 19 RIDINGS WHERE
THEY MAKE UP AT LEAST 20% OF THE
POPULATION.
THEY'RE ALL IN THE BATTLE
GROUNDS IN VANCOUVER AND
TORONTO.
JOHN McCALLUM BECAUSE HE WAS A
FORMER LIBERAL M.P. FOR THE
MARKHAM AREA HE HAS A LOT OF
CREDIBILITY ON THIS FILE.
AND HE'S NOT ONLY SOMEBODY WHO
IS
SPEAKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT BUT
SOMEONE WHO WOULD BE SEEN AS
SPEAKING AS A LIBERAL.
NOT JUST AS SOME PUBLIC SERVANT.
SO I THINK THAT THAT
CONSIDERATION
HAS TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT AS
WELL.
THAT McCALLUM MIGHT HAVE FELT
OR THE LIBERALS MIGHT HAVE FELT
THAT THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN
COMING OFF AS SYMPATHETIC TO
MISS
MENG'S PLIGHT.
AND FOR A LOT OF VOTERS,
CHINESE-CANADIANS THAT DO NOT
HAVE A UNIFORM VIEW ON THIS,
THAT MISS MENG WAS PUT SOMEHOW
IN THE MIDDLE MUCH A SPAT
BETWEEN THE
UNITED STATES AND CHINA.
THAT THEY ARE INDICATING THAT
THE GOVERNMENT UNDERSTOOD THAT.
>> I DON'T DOUBT FOR A SECOND
THAT McCALLUM MUST HAVE RUN
THROUGH HIS MEETING WITH THOSE
JOURNALISTS SOMEWHERE.
BUT WHAT DOES IT SAY -- AND I'M
NOT TERRIBLY FASCINATED BY HOW
THE ELECTORAL CALCULATIONS OF
THE LIBERALS ON THIS, EXCEPT TO
NOTE THAT A WEEK AFTER THEY LOST
THE CANDIDATE TO APPEALING TO A
SPECIFIC COMMUNITY, IT'S A BIT
RICH TO THEN GO BACK TO THE
ELECTORAL DRAWING BOARD AND USE
YOUR AMBASSADOR WHO IS THE
POINTS PERSON IN A MAJOR FOREIGN
POLICY DISPUTE TO SPREAD THE
GOOD WORD OF THE LIBERAL
GOVERNMENT.
BUT I AM INTERESTED IN THE
QUESTION OF WHAT DOES IT SAY
ABOUT JOHN McCALLUM THE
AMBASSADOR, THAT HE CANNOT
FULFILL A MISSION AND NOT CROSS
THE LINE IN A BRIEFING WITH
JOURNALISTS IN
MARKHAM?
>> WE PAY DIPLOMATS TO BE
DISCREET.
I THINK WHAT IS AS SIGNIFICANT
AS TO WHO WAS INVITED IS WHO
WASN'T INVITED WHICH IS THE
ENTIRE NATIONAL MEDIA.
AND WHY EXACTLY -- I DON'T
KNOW -- BUT THAT'S ANOTHER
QUESTION THAT I THINK HAS TO BE
ANSWERED IN THIS AFFAIR.
WHETHER OR NOT, YOU KNOW, WHAT
HE INTENDED TO SIGNAL IS AN
INTERESTING QUESTION.
I THINK
THAT CHANTAL MAKES A GOOD CASE
THAT MAYBE HE WASN'T INTENDING
TO SIGNAL AS MUCH AS HE DID.
BUT WHAT HE UNINTENTIONALLY
SIGNALLED IS ALSO IMPORTANT.
WHAT IT SIGNALS ABOUT WHAT THE
GOVERNMENT IS THINKING IS
SIGNIFICANT AND WORTH DIGGING
INTO.
BUT ALSO WHAT UNINTENDED SIGNAL
THIS MIGHT BE SENDING TO THE
CHINESE.
WHAT IS REALLY WORRISOME WITH ME
ON THIS IS WHEN YOU HAVE THESE
REALLY TENSION SITUATIONS -- I'M
NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO CALLS THESE
PEOPLES HOSTAGES, IT'S THE
CONSENSUS OF THE FOREIGN POLICY
COMMUNITY THAT THESE -- THIS IS
ESSENTIALLY HOSTAGE
DIPLOMACY THAT CHINA IS
PRACTISING.
IT'S AT SUCH A MOMENT TO SEND
SUCH CONFUSED SIGNALS FROM THE
GOVERNMENT ADVERTENTLY OR
INADVERTENTLY IS REALLY
TROUBLESOME.
AND IF HE WAS GIVEN
AUTHORIZATION TO SAY ANY OF
THIS, THAT'S TROUBLESOME IN ONE
WAY.
AND IF HE DID IT ON HIS OWN,
THAT IS ALSO TROUBLESOME AND IT
CERTAINLY CALLS INTO
QUESTION WHETHER HE SHOULD BE
OUR AMBASSADOR TO CHINA.
>> Rosemary: SO THE
RETRACTION, IS THAT ENOUGH TO
PUT THINGS RIGHT HERE AND CAN HE
GO BACK TO CHINA AND RETURN TO
THE WORK THAT HE WAS DOING TO
TRY TO GET THESE CANADIANS
RELEASED?
ERIC, YOU GO FIRST.
>> WELL, I MEAN, I REALLY CAN'T
SAY IF IT WILL BE ENOUGH.
WHEN YOU SEE HOW GOVERNMENT WAS
REACTING FIRST TO McCALLUM'S
COMMENTS WHERE IT WAS VERY HARD
TO GET A STATEMENT OUT OF THE
PRIME MINISTER WHEN HE WAS ASKED
ABOUT IT.
WHEN WE SAW HIM, I BELIEVE THAT
IT WAS EARLIER TODAY, NOT
EXACTLY
GIVING McCALLUM A COMPLETE
SUPPORT.
IT SUGGESTED THAT THE GOVERNMENT
IS STILL PRETTY UNCOMFORTABLE
ABOUT THIS.
AND TO SAY THAT HE MISSPOKE WHEN
HE WENT ON -- IT WAS A 40-MINUTE
SESSION WITH
THE MEDIA, I MEAN, IT'S HARD
TO -- IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT
McCALLUM HIMSELF WOULD HAVE
BEEN, UM, REALLY THE ONE WHO
REALLY WANTED TO GET OUT THERE
AND MAKE THIS STATEMENT.
>> Rosemary: YEAH, I MEAN, I
CAN'T
REMEMBER -- I MEAN, MY MEMORY IS
PROBABLY NOT AS GOOD AS EVERYONE
ELSE'S -- BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER A
TIME THAT AN AMBASSADOR HAD TO
DO THAT KIND OF THING -- TO WALK
BACK PUBLIC COMMENTS ON AN ISSUE
THAT IS THIS DELICATE WITH
ANOTHER COUNTRY.
THAT SEEMS TO ME PRETTY
INCREDIBLE.
>> AND IF THIS IS THE PREVIEW --
AND I DON'T KNOW -- BUT IF THIS
THE PREVIEW OF THE PRETEXT OF
THE ARGUMENTS THAT THE
GOVERNMENT WOULD MAKE FOR THE
MINISTER NIXING THE
EXTRADITION, OH, THAT WE DON'T
SUPPORT THE SANCTIONS PROCESS,
FOR EXAMPLE --
>> Rosemary: RIGHT, FOR THE
JUSTICE MINISTER AT THE END OF
THE EXTRADITION PROCESS TO SIGN
OFF ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, YEP.
>> BUT THAT'S THE OTHER THING.
IS THAT THE ARGUMENTS THAT THE
AMBASSADOR WAS TROTTING OUT HERE
ARE THIN AND CONTENTIOUS AT
BEST.
I THINK THAT I LOT OF PEOPLE
WOULD SAY THAT THEY
DON'T ACTUALLY STAND UP TO
ANALYSIS.
THEY'RE ARGUABLE BUT NOT
AIRTIGHT BY ANY MEANS.
IF THESE ARE THE ARGUMENTS TO
COVER UP WHAT WOULD BE A FAIRLY
TRANSPARENT DEAL THEN THAT
DOESN'T SPEAK WELL TO THIS
GOVERNMENT'S REASONING OR ITS
UNDERSTANDING OF THE LAW FOR
ITSELF, FOR EXAMPLE.
>> IT ALSO PUTS THE NEW JUSTICE
MINISTER -- LUCKY HIM --
MR. LAMETTI, IN A MORE DIFFICULT
POSITION.
IT'S GOING TO BE AWFULLY HARD
WHICHEVER WAY HE COMES DOWN NOW
TO CONTINUE TO ARGUE THAT THIS
IS NOT A POLITICAL DECISION.
THAT HE'S ONLY FOLLOWING THE
PROCESS.
AND THAT NOW THAT THE COURTS
HAVE SAID THAT IS WHAT IS GOING
TO HAPPEN AND SAID YES TO THE
U.S. APPLICATION FOR
EXTRADITION, THEN HE CAN'T SEE A
REASON NOT TO GO AHEAD WITH IT.
OR IN THE REVERSE, BLOCKING IT.
THESE WORDS WILL CONTINUE TO
HANG OVER WHATEVER HAPPENS AT
THE END OF THAT PROCESS.
>> Rosemary: I ONLY HAVE LIKE
A BUCK 30 LEFT AND LET'S SEE IF
WE CAN DO IT.
BECAUSE CHINA WASN'T THE ONLY
ISSUE.
I JUST WANT TO DO ONE QUICK GO
AROUND
ON THE ISSUE OF VENEZUELA.
CANADA HAD A PRETTY CLEAR
POSITION WITH THE UNITED STATES
AND SOME OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND
THE WORLD TODAY AROUND THE
SELF-ENDORSED LEADER, BUT THE
N.D.P. HAD A VERY DIFFERENT VIEW
AND IT WAS MANIFESTED IN A
NUMBER OF WAYS TODAY.
HERE'S THE NEW N.D.P. CANDIDATE,
SVEND ROBINSON.
>> IT IS SHAMEFUL THAT THE
GOVERNMENT OF CANADA AND JUSTIN
TRUDEAU IS LINING UP WITH
DONALD TRUMP, WITH THE
AUTHORITARIAN THUG PRESIDENT OF
BRAZIL AND IS, IN FACT,
RECOGNISING A COUP.
>> Rosemary: OKAY, VERY
QUICKLY -- SO JAGMEET SINGH'S
POSITION, NOT EXACTLY AS EXTREME
AS THAT, BUT CERTAINLY NOT WHAT
THE GOVERNMENT'S POSITION IS.
AND NIKI ASHTON, FAIRLY OUT
THERE AS WELL AND JUST A QUICK
GO AROUND ON WHAT YOU THINK OF
THE STRATEGY.
CHANTAL?
>> I WAS CURIOUS TO SEE THAT THE
CANDIDATES AND M.P.s NOW SPEAK
BEFORE THE FOREIGN AFFAIRS
CRITIC OR THE LEADER ON A MAJOR
FOREIGN POLICY ISSUE.
AND I DO NOTE THE DISTANCE
BETWEEN THE OFFICIAL STATEMENT
FROM SINGH AND THOSE STATEMENTS
THAT WE JUST HEARD.
AND TO ME THAT SUGGESTS THAT
MAYBE THE POSITION WITHIN THE
CAUCUS THAT WE HAVE HEARD FROM
SVEND ROBINSON IS NOT AS
UNANIMOUS OR AS STRONG AS WHAT
HE EXPRESSED.
>> Andrew: ANDREW?
>> IT MAY BE LEADERSHIP POLITICS
ALREADY REARING ITS HEAD IN THE
N.D.P. RANKS.
IT'S POLICY THAT YOU'VE GOT
PEOPLE ON THE FAR LEFT OF THE
N.D.P. WHO HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SOFT
ON THE CHAVEZ REGIME AND NOW THE
MADURO REGIME IN VENEZUELA WHICH
IS A DICTATORSHIP AND A
KLEPTOCRACY AND REJECTED BY
MILLIONS OF VENEZUELANS.
LOOK, NOBODY LIKES TO LINE UP
WITH DONALD TRUMP.
NINE OR 10 OTHER MEMBERS OF THE
ORGINISATION OF AMERICAN STATES
AND THE LIMA GROUP WHICH IS A
PRO-DEMOCRACY GROUP IN SOUTH
AMERICA THAT WE ARE PART OF AND
THAT WE'RE TRYING TO SUPPORT --
THIS ISN'T
LINING UP WITH DONALD TRUMP,
THIS IS LINING UP WITH THE
PRO-DEMOCRACY FORCES IN THAT
REGION.
>> Rosemary: ERIC QUICKLY.
>> YEAH, NOT JUST IN THE WESTERN
HEMISPHERE, GERMANY AS WELL
RECOGNISING THAT NEW LEADER.
AND I THINK THAT IT EXPOSES TWO
THINGS.
ONE, THE DIVIDES STILL IN THE
N.D.P. BETWEEN THE FURTHER LEFT
FLANK AND MAYBE THE MORE
CENTRIST FLANK.
AND ALSO JUST THE WEAKEST OF THE
LEADERSHIP AND THE CAUCUS, THE
RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT
LEADERSHIP THAT THEY CAN'T GET A
SINGLE MESSAGE OUT.
AND WERE NOT
REALLY ABLE TO PUT ANYBODY OUT
IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA WHO COULD
EXPRESS THE PARTY'S ACTUAL
POSITION ON THIS FILE.
>> Rosemary: AND SINGH DIDN'T
BROTHER TO DO IT HIMSELF IN
FRONT THE CAMERA.
OKAY, THANKS, EVERYBODY.
BEFORE WE GO, SUBSCRIBE TO "AT
ISSUE" THE PODCAST.
EXTRA CONTENT THIS WEEK.
WE'RE LOOKING AHEAD TO THE
UPCOMING SESSION OF PARLIAMENT,
LAST ONE BEFORE THE ELECTION
PROBABLY.
LOOK FOR IT IN iTUNES AND ANY
PODCAST APP.
cbcnews.ca/thenational.
>> Ian: STRAIGHT AHEAD ON "THE
NATIONAL"... A SOLUTION FOR
THOSE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS.
WHY THIS AUTHOR WANTS HIS
STORIES TO PUT YOU TO SLEEP.
>> IT'S RELAXING FOR THEM AND
IT'S GETTING OUT OF THEIR HEAD
AND OUT OF THEIR ANXIOUS
THOUGHTS.
>> Reporter: SHOULD IT BE
BORING?
>> I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S QUITE
ABOUT BEING BORING SPECIFICALLY.
(*)
(*)
>> HOW OFTEN DO WE PONDER THE
DEPTH OF THE PRESENT MOMENT, THE
ONE WE'RE IN?
I MEAN, HOW OFTEN DO WE REALLY
FEEL WHAT'S HAPPENING WITHIN AND
AROUND US?
>> Ian: THE VELVETY TONES OF
MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY IN A SLOW
CIRCULAR STYLE UNTIL IDEALLY YOU
DRIFT OFF.
JUST ONE OF THE CELEBRITIES
EMPLOYED BY A CALIFORNIA
SOFTWARE COMPANY TO READ YOU TO
SLEEP.
FOR $80 A YEAR.
AND IN A SLEEP-DEPRIVED AGE,
BUSINESS IS BOOMING.
STRESS, DIET, ECONOMIC
UNCERTAINTY AND STARING AT
SCREENS, THE NUMBER OF POWERFUL
FORCES CONSPIRE TO KEEP US AWAKE
AT NIGHT.
AND TOO OFTEN THEY'RE WINNING.
TONIGHT AS PART OF OUR
CONTINUING SERIES ON SLEEP, NICK
PURDON MEETS ONE OF THE CREATIVE
MINDS WHO THINKS THAT HE HAS A
CALM AND RELAXING FIX TO THE
PROBLEM.
(*)
>> FAR IN THE DISTANCE BETWEEN
THE TREES AND BEYOND THE ROOFS
THERE WAS A NARROW GLIMPSE OF AN
ABSOLUTELY BREATHTAKING
MOUNTAIN.
>> I LOVE IT, I LOVE THE TONE
AND I LOVE THE SOFTNESS.
TAKE YOUR TIME MORE.
LIKE YOU CAN TOTALLY SLOW IT
DOWN.
THE WHOLE POINT IS TO BE SLOW
AND FLOWING AND RHYTHMIC.
>> Reporter: CHRIS ADVANSUN IS
WORKING ON A BRAND-NEW STORY
THAT HE
HOPES THAT WILL REALLY PUT
PEOPLE TO SLEEP.
THAT'S WHAT HE DOES.
CHRIS IS A SLEEP WRITER.
HE'S ENLISTED ACTOR PAREEK TO
READ TO HIM TO SEE IF IT WORKS.
>> DRAPED WITH POWDER WHITE, A
FRONTIER EARTH IS DESCENDING
FROM THE LAND AND DISAPPEARING
INTO THE FOG.
>> Reporter: THE STORY IS
CALLED "THE CLOUD MOUNTAIN."
NOT A LOT HAPPENS.
AND THAT'S THE POINT.
IT'S PART OF A NEW VEIN OF
WRITING CALLED "SLOW LIT,"
STORIES THAT PUT YOU UNDER.
>> THE SKIP OF THE HEART THAT
YOU FEEL IN RARE MOMENTS WHEN
THE UNIVERSE SHOWS A FLICKER OF
ITS FULLNESS.
SIERRA TURNED OFF THE IGNITION.
GO OUT OF THE CAR AND CLICK THE
DOOR SHUT.
>> [PHONE RINGING]
>> Reporter: BUT WRITING SLEEP
STORIES ISN'T EASY.
IT TAKES WORK.
AT THIS COMMUNAL WORKSPACE IN
TORONTO IS WHERE CHRIS POLISHES
HIS MANUSCRIPTS.
I MEET HIM TO FIND OUT JUST HOW
A SLEEP STORY WORKS.
>> WE ALL REMEMBER BEING TOLD A
BEDTIME STORY WHEN WE WERE KIDS
TO FALL ASLEEP.
AND THAT IDEA IS ANCIENT.
WE PICKED UP ON THE IDEA TO
WRITE STORIES SPECIFICALLY FOR A
GROWN-UP AUDIENCE.
SO WE KIND OF THINK OF IT AS
BEDTIME STORIES FOR
GROWNUPS.
>> Reporter: WHAT DO YOU THINK
ARE KEYS TO GOOD SLEEP STORIES?
>> WE AVOID ANYTHING THAT WILL
JAR THE ATTENTION OF THE
LISTENER AND JOSTLE THEM AWAKE.
SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE -- IT'S A
BALANCE.
YOU WANT TO KIND OF HOOK THE
ATTENTION OF THE LISTENER BUT I
THINK OF HOLDING IT REALLY
GENTLY.
AND THE IDEA IS THAT THE
EXPERIENCE IS AN UNWIND FOR
THEM, IT'S RELAXING FOR THEM AND
IT'S GETTING OUT OF THEIR HEAD
AND OUT OF THEIR ANXIOUS
THOUGHTS.
>> Reporter: SHOULD IT BE
BORING?
>> I DON'T THINK THAT IT'S QUITE
ABOUT BEING BORING SPECIFICALLY.
I THINK THAT IT'S ABOUT NOT
BEING TOO EXCITING.
>> Reporter: I MEAN, WHAT IS
THE GOAL ULTIMATELY OF THE SLEEP
ARE?
>> THE GOAL OF THE STORY IS TO
GUIDE THE LISTENER TO SLEEP, TO
REALLY KIND OF SOOTHE AND LULL
THEM OFF TO A PEACEFUL SLEEP.
>> Reporter: SO IS THERE AN
ENDING THEN?
DO THEY GET TO THE END?
>> THE GOAL IS FOR THE LISTENER
TO NOT GET TO THE END WHICH AS A
WRITER OF STORIES IS A LITTLE
STRANGE.
>> Reporter: SO YOU PUT PEOPLE
TO SLEEP FOR A LIVING?
>> I PUT PEOPLE TO SLEEP FOR A
LIVING, YES.
NON-CHEMICALLY INDUCED SLEEP AND
AN IMAGINATIVE JOURNEY THAT IS
JUST BEAUTIFUL AND PEACEFUL.
>> Reporter: OKAY.
HOW ABOUT WE GIVE IT A TRY?
I ASKED CHRIS IF HE WERE TO
WRITE A SLEEP STORY ABOUT
HIMSELF HOW WOULD IT GO?
>> I WOULD THINK ABOUT A
SITUATION AND SOME KIND OF
SIMPLE JOURNEY AND JUST HAVE AN
EXPERIENCE THAT MAYBE CONNECTS
WITH NATURE.
I THINK THAT I WOULD SET OFF ON
A HIKE TO START MY OWN SLEEP
STORY.
>> Reporter: THAT IS ABOUT THE
LEVEL OF DRAMA AND ACTION IN A
TYPICAL SLEEP STORY.
AND THE THING IS THAT CHRIS
STARTED HIS CAREER AS A
SCREENWRITER.
YOU KNOW, CAR CHASES AND
EXPLOSIONS.
>> I CERTAINLY DIDN'T SET OUT TO
WRITE STORIES TO PUT PEOPLE TO
SLEEP.
BUT I HAVE SORT OF FALLEN INTO
IT AND I ADORE IT.
>> Reporter: AND HE'S VERY
GOOD AT IT TOO.
MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE
DOWNLOADED CHRIS' STORIES.
>> AFTER LINGERING FOR A LONG
WHILE, SIERRA CLIMBED BACK INTO
HER CAR AND CONTINUED TOWARDS
THE MOUNTAIN.
>> Reporter: I GET IT -- BY
NOW I
SHOULD BE ASLEEP.
SO THEN HOW DOES A SLEEP STORY
END?
>> IN MANY OF THE STORIES THE
END -- THE RESOLUTION OF THE
STORY IS THAT THE CHARACTER
FALLS ASLEEP.
>> Reporter: HOW DOES THE
STORY THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON
TODAY, HOW DOES IT END?
>> YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO FIND
OUT AND MAYBE YOU WON'T, YOU
WILL NEVER FIND OUT, I DON'T
KNOW.
>> Reporter: I REALIZED THAT
CHRIS AND I REALLY DON'T HAVE
MUCH IN COMMON.
YOU KNOW, I WANT PEOPLE TO GET
TO THE END OF MY STORIES.
IN FACT, I HOPE THAT YOU'RE
STILL WITH ME.
NICK PURDON, CBC NEWS, TORONTO.
>> Ian: OUR SLEEP SERIES
CONTINUES ON MONDAY NIGHT.
WE'LL LOOK AT HOW MANY YOUNG
CANADIANS AREN'T GETTING ENOUGH
SLEEP.
SEVERAL TEENAGERS SHARED THEIR
STORIES WITH US.
TAKE A LOOK...
>> I HAD PROBLEMS WITH ALMOST
FALLING ASLEEP IN CLASS.
I'D BE LISTENING TO LIKE WHAT
THEY WRITE UP ON THE BOARD AND I
JUST FEEL MY HEAD DIP AND I'D
SHOOT RIGHT BACK UP.
IT WAS PRETTY BAD.
>> LIKE YOUR BRAIN ISN'T AWAKE
TO UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING AND
THEN THEY CALL ON YOU AND YOU
DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER.
AND THEN YOU JUST KIND OF
FREEZE.
>> SOMETIMES I DON'T EVEN GO,
LIKE, I WILL FAKE SICK AND I'LL
STAY IN BED ALL DAY.
I DON'T FUNCTION PROPERLY AND I
DON'T DO ANYTHING IN CLASS.
I FALL ASLEEP AND I SNAP AT
PEOPLE.
IT'S NOT GOOD.
>> Ian: IN THE MEANTIME IF YOU
MISSED ANY OF OUR STORIES THIS
WEEK YOU CAN FIND OUR SERIES ON
OUR YouTube PAGE.
THAT'S AT "CBC THE NATIONAL."
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH
TONIGHT'S "MOMENT."
>> Andrew: WHEN WILL GUTHRO
HEARD BRYAN ADAMS WAS PLAYING IN
HALIFAX HE DECIDED TO TAKE A
CHANCE.
HAVING LEARNED HOW TO PLAY
"SUMMER OF 69" YEARS AGO BRUSHED
UP ON THE
CHORDS AND PUT TOGETHER A
BRISTOL BOARD SIGN THAT READ
"BRYAN, CAN I PLAY GUITAR ON
SUMMER OF 69"?
WELL, BRYAN ADAMS SAW THE SIGN
AND INVITED GUTHRO UP TO PLAY.
SO NATURALLY WE WANTED TO KNOW
WHAT THAT WAS LIKE, AND SO WE
CAUGHT UP WITH HIM -- GUTHRO,
THAT IS, AND THAT IS OUR
"MOMENT."
(*)
(singing).
>> I WENT YOU UP TO THE FRONT
WITH THE SIGN AND HE READ IT.
AND I SAID BRYAN, CAN I PLEASE
PLAY GUITAR ON "SUMMER OF 6"?
AND THIS IS FINE, I GOT A CHANCE
TO RAP WITH BRYAN ADAMS, THAT
WAS AMAZING.
AND AT THE END OF THE SONG I AM
ON STAGE SHAKING BRYAN ADAM'S
HAND AND GETTING READY TO PLAY
"SUMMER OF 69".
I STARTED PLAYING GUITAR ABOUT
15 YEARS AGO AND IT WAS ONE OF
THE EARLY SONGS THAT I LEARNED
AND I WAS JUST INCREDULOUS.
IT WAS SO SURREAL.
I WASN'T EVEN THINKING -- I GOT
ON AUTO PILOT TO REMEMBER THE
CHORDS.
IT BECAME SO
COMFORTABLE AFTER A FEW MINUTES.
THE BAND AND BRYAN WERE SO
GRACIOUS AND THEY MADE SURE THAT
IT WAS SO MUCH FUN FOR ME UP
THERE.
* ONE OF THE BEST DAYS OF MY
LIFE *
>> Ian: SO I HAVE WATCHED BRYAN
ADAMS LOTS OF TIMES IN CONCERT
AND HE'S TERRIFIC.
HE OFTEN BRINGS SOMEONE UP
THERE.
I DIDN'T KNOW THAT YOU NEEDED A
SIGN THOUGH TO IMPROVE YOUR
CHANCES.
BUT LET ME STOP TALKING BECAUSE
ANDREW WANTS TO SHARE A WEIRD
ANXIETY.
>> Andrew: IT'S NOT WEIRD.
I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT ALL I
COULD THINK ABOUT WHEN I WATCHED
THAT -- BECAUSE I SOMETIMES HAVE
THE SAME SORT OF FANTASY IS THAT
I'M GOING TO GET UP THERE, AND I
KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE SONG, BUT
THE PERFORMER WANTS TO PLAY
IN A DIFFERENT KEY THAN I KNOW
IT AND THEN WHAT?
>> Ian: ALMOST AS ODD AS THE
PILLOW THING.
>> Andrew: MUSICIANS WOULD
UNDERSTAND.
ANYWAY...
>> Rosemary: YOU GUYS SHOULD
JUST KEEP TALKING BECAUSE I'M
FALLING ASLEEP HERE.
ONE OF THOSE SLEEP STORIES.
THANK YOU FOR SHARING!
THAT'S "THE NATIONAL" FOR
JANUARY 24th.
GOODNIGHT.
>> Andrew: GOODNIGHT.
>> Ian: GOODNIGHT.
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