All right, this is Arab Talk with Jess and Jamal. I'm Jess Ghannam.
-And this is Jamal Dajani.
- Jamal, we have an extraordinary show today. We have a lot to cover. We're
very fortunate today to have in studio with us Professor Rabab Abdul Hadi, director, founder
of the Amed program at San Francisco State, one of the leading academics and intellectuals
on the question of Palestine and intersectional analyses of Palestine. I mean truly a gifted
scholar. We have a lot to talk about today Jamal and as a context for the discussion
with Professor Abdulhadi and some breaking news that we have having to do with what's
happening at San Francisco State. I think as a backdrop and as a context for that, we
need to talk a little bit about Senate Bill 1. Just for our listeners in the midst of
all the chaos in Washington, in the midst of the shutdown of our government with
800,000 people not being paid< with gridlock between the-- you know in the Congress
between the house and the Senate and the impossibility of getting anything done for this country
And eighty thousand federal employees. - 800,000 not being able to work the Senate
in its infinite wisdom found the opportunity to work on one bill, and one bill only, and
pass a bill basically about the BDS movement, about essentially freedom of speech and about
the ability for people to condemn, to condemn, the inalienable right that people have to
boycott, divest and sanction whomever they want. So I think as a backdrop to speaking
with Professor Abdulhadi, we should take a little bit of time to condemn, to call out
and to articulate the so-called-- I mean we're talking about 71 Senators, Jamal, who voted
for this discriminatory, anti-constitutional bill. We need to count the people among the
71 who claim to be progressive, who claim to be liberal yet voted for this outrageous BDS bill.
And we will, so just to make it a little bit clearer, 25 of these senators from
the Democratic party, they joined the GOP on Tuesday. - With Marco Rubio.
To pass legislation that would empower states to punish
companies and individuals who boycott Israel to protest
its occupation of Palestinian territories. So this is just to make it--
What has that got to do with the United States today - They actually voted to trample on the First
Amendment and and I say, and I've said in the past our show the that these Senators
voted to shred the Constitution. So they pass the Bill 77 to 23 votes, and basically those
Senators who voted for the bill. Well, number one, I encourage them to reread if they haven't
read the Constitution. They should really look... - Google it. - I'm not even sure they
read the bill, Jamal. -And you know, which protects basically against the McCarthy era
tactics that this bill endorses. So the bill that they've passed the anti-boycott
bill is an attack on Americans and on the Constitution. So again, we are very fortunate
to have dr. Rabab Abdulhadi with us right here in the studio. - Welcome Professor. Abdulhadi
- Who basically had issues herself, attacks on academic freedom, attacks on the First
Amendment, similar issues, but we'll come back to this. - So wait a minute Jamal. I
think we need to contextualize it. Professor Abdulhadi is the tip of the spear of the attack
on academic freedom in this country, meaning she has been I'm sorry to say this Rabab you
have been targeted. You have you are the poster academic for vicious targeted attacks on people
who support the indivisibility of justice and this country and have and have been the
object of those attacks for many, many years. And should we start with the good news, just
before we get to the bad news or I mean, I don't know. It doesn't matter. - Which good
news do you want to talk about. - I mean the two lawsuits that were struck... - You want
to talk a little bit about the Senate bill. - Yeah. I think it's very much about the Senate
bill first, then we'll get to the others. - I think the Senate bill, let me just say
something that it is also happening at a time of increased Israeli aggression and violence
against the Palestinian. Increased state, as well as settlers, colonists really basically
militias who are going around attacking Palestinians. We are hearing more and more and more. So
Israel is stuck. Israeli supporters and apologist are stuck. They cannot find any ways to defend
Israeli actions because they are indefensible. You cannot defend violence, racist violence.
You cannot defend taking of land. You cannot defend killing women and children. You cannot
defend shooting young people. You cannot defend uprooting olive trees or cutting them down
depriving people of livelihood, of everything that Israel is doing we know again and again
including the bill that they pass the so-called Nation State bill that basically
actually really defines Israel, according to its Constitution- No, there is no Constitution
according to its laws, as an apartheid state that only favors one people, Jewish people
against everybody else, especially in indigenous people of Palestine. So I think this is really
important to keep in- So the apologist for Israel are actually very, they have they have
they have an issue. They they are stuck. They do not know how to defend Israel. The only
way to do it is to attack people who are speaking up for justice and to stop the March towards
Justice towards Justice were in Palestine as part of the indivisibility for justice
of more voices. So let's keep into consideration that Jewish voice for peace the largest Jewish
organization in the United States actually now adopts a position against Zionism. This
is huge the next row, we talked about it extraordinary position, but think about that. This is really
really important. There is multiple Jewish groups. If not now I Jan younger group Zephaniah
are that at San Francisco said we're very happy Jews against Zionism open Hill and there
are so many groups that are actually contesting the ownership of Illusionists by Design is
groups. And what the forward the Jewish World calls this the Jewish establishment. Okay,
this is so that's I think it's really important to keep that in mind. Secondly. These groups
are bullies. They are historically they are certainly used to with a pack and the people
they push around in Congress and they bribe them and they give them money that was their
arms and so on there are used to basically silencing everybody and crushing everybody
the fact that we stand up and speak up for rights is unacceptable to the right so they
become much nastier because they're also really stuck. I think it's really really important
to wrote Institute come campaign in 2010 saying that we need to delegitimize these people
we need to attack them and so on it's not working. It didn't work. It didn't work ethic
of attacking me and of anti-Semitism attacking everybody else calling us. There's a didn't
work with a failed in everything we can talk about the lawsuit. So this is I think this
is the context that comes to Congress and it's not really I mean, it's not the Senate
bill. It's a neighbor a Pac Bell, I think. Really need to say this is an impact Basin
8-pack bill, but passed in the Senate use the tools of the Senators that they pride
and this is the basically the third attempt right right by Senator Rubio. Yeah. Well,
it's interesting. It started with Rubio. He failed miserably Jamal and then after that
it went to and I'm really Disturbed to say this Senator Chris Murphy a Democrat who labels
himself as an might even run for president wants to be labeled as Progressive is seen
as kind of a voice for the voiceless. These are things that he won't have the second try.
Yes, it didn't pass and then we have the third version the Rubio new improved version that
actually did pass but Amed I do want to ask you. Hold on one second. Yeah. I want to ask
her about this question. What do you make of the current political climate that we have
complete gridlock in every aspect of our governmental process with the executive and legislative
branch? Yeah. That they find it in their heart and their soul even though there's I don't
think it's contradictory a just I think this is I mean if you look at the history of the
United States or any other oppressive governments, whenever they get stuck they will resort to
actually be attacking somebody else. I'm picking on somebody else as the skin in order for
them to think about building Unity. I mean you look at look at Trump's tweets. Just let's
do a little study. It's not going to be a big study because they're very short and obviously
they're not well cited or well-informed whatever but we can actually look at this sweet and
just do a study within a week or something and see where it where all of these things
come together. It's an aggressive policy. It's a policy for to kind of like a expand
grid. I mean they even yesterday his statements against socialism and so on expand white supremacy
exact full of lies the stuff that he did about the white landowners in South Africa and against
Land Reform the stuff that he supported the white supremacist in Charlottesville right
there the fact that he would not really condemn anti-Semitism and he basically was told by
the people in Pittsburgh don't even bother to even coming to pay condolences. And now
he got a couple of people to go to the State of the Union. Okay big deal again, he does
not own jewishness and they don't either an order Jared Kushner because the people there
are a lot of people have defied and stood up for what they think jewishness is so this
is cut it seems to me to be very consistent is that there are no sense of priorities that
represent the majority of the people in this country. They've set of priorities is to support
the rich is to support the aggressors. It supports corruption half of the people in
government have the people who run around Trump are under investigation and their corruption
very similar, by the way to the Israeli government and Netanyahu is not very different. There
is like it's a very similar recipe there. They're going they had the same Mo the reading
the same book, right? So you have this happening in Washington and so it is not an agenda definitely
is not an urgent of prayer to I think what's really important is that They were Senators
who voted against it now. The step is school has historically been is that Israel goes
unopposed Nobody challenges 23 voted against it, and I want to take a minute to name and
shame the Senators this Democratic senators who voted basically here are twenty five Democrats
including Senator. Angus King is an independent from men but caucuses, by the way with the
Democratic party who voted with the GOP to send the anti-boycott legislation to the house
right? Give me a minute here Bennett from the air from Colorado Blumenthal Connecticut
Cantwell, Washington Cardin, Maryland, Casey, Pennsylvania Coons, Delaware Cortez Musto
from Nevada, Duckworth, Illinois Hassan, New Hampshire Jones, Alabama King men Club occur
from Minnesota for sure. Yeah, good shot at Minnesota Mansion were Mankind from Virginia
ancient Menendez, New Jersey more a Democrat from Washington Rose and Nevada Peters, Michigan
Schumer from New York, which is no see Yuma Arizona Smith Minnesota stabbed now, Michigan
tester, Montana Warner, Virginia and white house, Rhode Island and widen Oregon shame
on them. Well not just shame trouble by me but I mean Heaven it's about seven or eight
of them actually try to say that their progress. Well, that's this but this is what's going
to play this game. And this is very important exception allows Palestine. You have to be
about Justice for All and the visibility but there is another thing that's really interesting
because I follow and re follow because we actually move back and forth to New York that
there that has been a very big debate in the associate assembly of Nur. Work that there
is a group that constitutes some kind of focus within the Democratic party that lined up
with the Republicans and basically went against this black assemblywoman. Yes, who is like
speaking that and they're basically I mean, it was really classical racism. It was really
classical presumed incompetent. They tried to confront a basin and she want the same
thing happened with the with the Cortez. Yeah, Alexandra and this is the same people who
win actually this is the remnants who actually it reminds me a lot of the Israeli history
of the Israeli Labour party embarrass the construction they are the ones who are most
civilized. They really know what's best for people. They know how to speak the right language
and so on and then everybody else is a Riff Raff and everybody else who is being put down
is person of color women queer people indigenous people people who come from Martinez committees
immigrants Muslims, Arabs Palestinians, I mean there is this is kind of lining up that
you have this greed and nastiness racist white supremacist Rule and then you have everybody
else the majority of the people. Those people are raising their Refuge there lifting taxes
of themselves imposing more stress upon the majority of the population deriving jobs aware
supporting no regulations whatsoever in rents in everything in everything they are doing
so you have a very nasty vicious agenda that's suppose in Justice and you have the majority
of the people in this country and the word who are for justice and is the same old recipe
just has different names to their but I think we're Bob what we can say and you're making
a very good point is that on the plus side. There were 23 Senators who did vote against
it, right which is unusual because usually Israelis business as usual It's usually the
difference Reflect some sort of politically right shift, right or political expediency
because some of the Senators that voted against it this time a little bit more running for
president running for president only that it really shows most important. I think it
really shows how far we have come. Yes in what Benham always calls turning the tide,
you know, the tide is turning Shin things are changing things are changing including
in the United States things have changed upset all the time around the world people support
Palestinian people support Justice in for Palestine. It seems that a no-brainer when
you come to the United States Israel, and the Israeli apologist design is believed that
this is their Turf how dare you one of the things that they're doing is how dare you
even challenged our Total Domination of the u.s. Of the policies and so on now we're going
to the Senate and we're going kind of like somewhere where it's actually showing that
more and more people not only re as I am because I think people realize I saw this whole thing
that I didn't know and now I know it's not true because That is Google. You can just
go and find everything easily. It's not about the song. You're listening to Arab talk on.
Kpoo San Francisco. This is 89.5 FM our guest in the studio is dr. Rob abdelhadi we're going
to go and we're going to talk a little bit about armored and about the progress in your
lawsuit. But also with the big win against Lawfare and I just want to before we shift
from this topic. Just also remind remind us all that this bill the s-1 by Senator. Yeah,
but there is also a little bit kind of a misconception about this bill because we keep talking about
the anti BDS punches through but this bill that Senator and that is that has been sponsored
by Senator Marco Rubio is a package of foreign policy bills that includes 38 billion dollars
in military. Aid to Israel and he stuck he could be buried within it as they do the combating.
This is what he calls it combating BDS act which would give States and localities more
legal authority to penalize companies and individuals who participate so I think also
but I will not lose sight. Yeah, I think about 38 38 billion dollars that they want to send,
you know, right towards Israel and then and it's kind of like by the way, let's squeeze
in but this unconstitutional Clause but let them bury it with in that bill exactly. But
here's the question guys. With the current climate in casino for a bill to pass bang.
It passes in the Senate. It has to the house in the house. There has to be reconciliation.
Yes, and then it goes to the executive to sign. I think that perhaps for the first time
in our memories there probably could not be enough votes in the Congress to get this passed.
I think it's all I mean, it's possible it's possible. I don't know. It's a decimal go
to the Congress now. Yeah, and I think it's I think it's really important to hold our
our Representatives accountable. It was representative of the public are supposed to be accountable
to the public not to the donors and the lobby that basically tries to twist arms and pass
on terrible agendas. I think what I was saying before is I think what's really important
is that now more people in representatives are realizing that you cannot actually give
Israel. Blanket check and get away with it. No, they may do it in wherever they may do
it in secret. But if you want to do it publicly you are basically saying what in 1985 we were
all saying is that upper side is a bad word apartheid is a bad thing and you're aligning
with apartheid you are basically supporting Injustice. And as if you were in during the
Civil Rights the height of the civil rights movement in the 60s, if you're actually supporting
segregation, you are supporting racism and what people did in both South Africa and in
the US and everywhere else is resort to boycott is demand sanctions estimate divestment from
things that are really terrible. It's a very basic simple formula. So there is it's a very
simple tool to do to kind of like, okay. I'm not going to participate in furthering Injustice.
That's basically what we the assessing and more and more people are realizing that they
can't actually do that and use Israel as business as usual everything is okay and get away with
it and that even their ties with the donors with the money with the pressure with whatever
all of Of and I should say it's not just a bag. I mean a pack is a very big but then
also the Christian zionists The Very extreme right-wing. I mean one of the reasons the
Christian zionists switched support for Trump is because he fulfilled quote-unquote his
promise to move the US Embassy in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem this stepping all over Palestinian
rise to this. Holy city and the fact that this holy city should be holy for all not
only for Israeli Jews and basically, but I have to I have to just say one more thing
and We talked about this last week, but I have to say it in front of you, which is look
at the irony. We are allowed to boycott American companies. Yeah easily. We can boycott Trump
Hotel if we want grapes in Chile. We we can criticize anybody we wanted as country. This
is part of our yes, our constitutional right and yet the Senate has the audacity to pass
a lot that limits our ability to do something in relation to another for but let me let
me say some things just look in two weeks. We will be talking about it. It's going to
be the day of remembrance. Yes for the construction of concentration camps for Japanese Americans
and Japanese people in the US it is going to be anniversary in August of the bombing
of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in terms of the DOR of terms of the in concentration camps
for the Japanese. It was the government that supported that's right McCarthy and begat
began with the committee. An American activities that basically prosecuted People based on
their beliefs. That's why we talk about McCarthyism. So it's the thing is is that the history let's
say the history of the US government and the history of you as Congress people and so on
has not always been good even the Supreme Court because we are talking about the separation
of powers. It all depends who sits on the superhero and what they do and what they don't
do. I mean they passed they they supported the Muslim ban because of the makeup of the
Supreme Court, it's always about power it always about holding people accountable. So
when we come to Congress and say what will Congress do eyes I do believe in holding Representatives
accountable and I support people who go and sit in the offices of the Congress people
the Senators and so on and hold them accountable. It is not the only strategy and people should
not only get activated only four years or every two years and so on we should always
be holding people accountable all the time because the more you out and make transparent
these things this back room deals and all of this corruption that is going on. And say
you need to be consistent and so on and educate people in the in the process then the less
likely it is for these policies to continue going but I think it's a very long time. So
maybe the Senate don't forget also there is a rift now between the Republicans and the
Democrats which I think is really important to remember because during the Vietnam war
one of the things and we used to always say as Palestinians when we were analyzing is
that part of the problem for Palestine solidarity in the US and getting it because the ruling
class in the u.s. Is United around Israel, but it is divided. It was divided around Vietnam
and that's what made it possible. That's right actually for the movement to build itself
support the struggle of the heroic people of Vietnam, you know, very affected yesterday
two days ago was the Lunar New Year. But also we have we've been in Vietnam in December,
you know our first trip but it was there was a division in the ruling class and that allowed
it to happen. Now, we're seeing something like this to this I think all of the stuff
bringing it together and and this is why if we you know, we Decide when you want to move
on to talk about I'm at and so on but this is why we need programs like this. This is
why we need to educate not only about issues that we think are quote unquote our issues.
They're not just our issues but all questions of Justice all issues and ask people intelligent
questions that raise critical issues. So people can think if they decide to support and Justice
is their choice. I mean, you cannot save everybody we need to call them out. What you need to
do. The question is what part of I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution
of the United States and is against all enemies foreign and domestic these Senators didn't
understand. That's the only this is the only question I have for them. I mean it just if
they can answer which part they didn't understand of this of their oath, you know, then they
can explain to me why they voted to shred the First Amendment and Shred the Constitution.
I want to switch gears right here because I want to give you a time first You know because
I know a lot of people join us each time new people. I want to briefly to talk a little
bit about it and the program because it's very important and then move on to the big
basically in my opinion one of the greatest victories. Absolutely one brand and and then
this is the example of where history of jurors once what I said, well, thanks. Well I say
this is where can we say? Well I said this is what the tide shifting absolute that you
know, you're small but capable legal team and then your work and the and all the support
around, you know able to defeat this so-called mega mega Lo fair project to to Lloyd. I'm
not not one but three times and you know that the case was dismissed dismissed. And and
now of course, there's a new case that you are mounting yourself and it Justified one.
So I'll briefly about armored and let's yeah, so I'm at the Arab and Muslim ethnicities
and diaspora stop.
This program which wasn't the original name the San Francisco State had a different name
even calling it Islamic and I we had this big debate about it people misnomer. I mean,
this is very similar to when they were saying Islamic at the sun was saying
Islamic people the stomach and people but I was basically heavily recruited to come
and set up the program as an international scholar of Palestine studies that will steer
12 faculty members. This is at least according to the US Bureau who kept he even sent me
the list. I found it the other day. You will see these faculty members, you will build
a program of international stature. They were very impressed by the center for American
studies that I was directing in Michigan and international connections and the dumbest
and the various do next with various communities and so on and when he won with was when I
said, what is this program going to be and he said the College of ethnic studies is that
this is really great. I'm very excited because what it does is bring scholarship pedagogy
and public role advocacy together and this is exactly what you need to do with the program
whether you are in an University of especially in a public university like San Francisco
state that has a social justice Mission. So I I came there was lot of tensions as you
remember, let's not forget you came from the University of Michigan. Yes Rabab one of the
most. Okay. This is the way I feel about Nablus. Yeah, I know but I need for context one of
the best universities in the world frankly. Well, yeah, I mean it was there was there
was Heavy recruitment. I did take a pay cut. I agreed to take a pay cut but it was that
the university committed and this is what we can like talk a little bit come back to
the lawsuit. But the university is committed to build the program with the critical mass.
Even though they said you will still 12 faculty members. I said that's not enough. I need
the critical mass. That's right insisted not to sign the contract until the university
committed to hiring two other tenure track positions to work with me on the road to hiring
more so we can actually build the department V Department in the College of ethnic studies.
I also insisted that we wanted to have support from the University there were multiple things
that we've and and I said, okay, I will take a cut in my salary and rear and and return
for this and why everybody knows and then I came in and there was a lot of tensions
between the United. The city and the community and the students over the Palestinian mural
honoring the late Edward side because the university especially the present president
Corrigan and the the pro-israel community the Zionist including the Jewish community
relations Council. We're very much against the two symbols in the mural the little cartoon
character of Handler which was the cartoon character that natural Ally the Palestinian
cartoonists who was assassinated and London by the Mossad created and handler was carrying
in one hand their pain because this is about knowledge. It's about this is the only thing
you can take with you when you get expelled from your country from your home. The only
thing different is your sword is yours aren't exactly a second haven't even said that I'll
kill him El Mundo kuya the word is the gun and the second had the key and on top of it.
It says allow the right of return right and both of them were completely opposed to another
when I came we actually all remember we had many things. I invited people to come to our
me to have a discussion about it. And so and we agreed we're Agree to remove these symbols
for not to have a mural which was a compromise a very bad compromise, but at the same time
Handler will live and all of the stuff we live and it has lived. Okay. So basically
we resolve some big crisis for the University. We get within two years the attacks began,
but I don't want to talk about what you want to talk about what happened, you know, but
you left out an important point from The Faculty positions and the commitment to you a time.
It was actually part of your contract. This is my is my contract I would not have sounded
at this is what about these really insisted on but that's really important. It was a contractual
agreement. Of course, it's not on paper. I would have never signed the contract if I
didn't get if I didn't get ten months academic faculty not 12-month administrative. I mean
president Corrigan had to send me a revised contract would not I refuse I said, I'm not
going to say thank you very much. The I compromised on three things one is I agreed to to faculty
lines instead of 3, right 2 is I agree to be associate professor not full professor
and three. I agree to take a cotton. These are the three things that I accepted because
it was such a promising thing. I came we build it. We have been attacked the attacks took
maybe a LOL for about maybe about six months or a year and so on after we set up the mural
but they resumed in 2009 because the students cops basically created the mural anniversary
and had armor baruti one of the cofounders of EDS you remember just because you were
very much enjoyed you actually moderated. I was the moderator of that promise night
and it was an amazing event and it was but that but the jcr see from then at least I
think before them theme seems that they were lobbying before but Trend they came and opposed
it. They demanded the shot of the event Corrigan was smart said no, I'm not going to violate
academic freedom, but they raised questions about me there is questions about funding
to the university they threatened and so on and then it began the next in a few days if
you a couple of weeks, I think Cory can cancel the searches we were doing which we are already.
The approved by the university that's right for by the HR my everybody else. It was vetted
everything. And by the way, sometimes the universe says oh, well, it's because we had
an economic crisis in 2008. I said, but the governing crisis was already there in 2009
when I submitted the job description and they were approved for so we were hiring other
people at the table where but I'm saying this if you say that and you say it's economic
so why did you even approve them to start excuse anyway, but but they basically they
canceled the searches and then they proceeded to basically delete them from the budget at
the same time. Also raising islamophobia was coming up and by the way, also the connection
was with the 2008 2009 Israeli attack on Gaza. So all of the stuff is not it's always Palestine
is always presence and they try to use technical reasons in order to like what they're doing.
Now what happens this is where continuous attack from the GCR see to I'm becoming an
accusing me of glorifying the murder of Jews and being anti-semitic to campus watch trying
to stop there. The agreement with an Azure to Horowitz putting up posters hateful posters
around campus and violent posters and to the lawsuit there is there were multiple things
every single time they tried and I think this is my belief. Is that what they try to do
the attack first Corrigan remove the faculty line. So I remain one person faculty member
and then what they were design is the grooves the pro-israel groups try to do then is to
dismantle the program first not to allow it to be institutionalized now when we institutionalize
it and we got 22 courses all GE fulfill general education requirement, which means every single
student at the university has to take one of them as a group of courses and we all then
we went into the armored minor and we had an academic minor approved which is the first
one in the world, by the way, then we went and we set up the Edward side scholarship,
which also was Folks were trying to block it and we can talk about them if you want
to and then they try to also block them in the Madam of understanding with an Azure National
University then and they've been attacking it less and we have it and now the most recent
thing that and then they try to block the teaching Palestine project that we have started
two years ago and we had all these successful conferences and so on now they are also trying
to block the latest program we're doing which is study abroad in Palestine. They can San
Francisco State students to study in Palestine and it is an amazing project. We're going
to make it happen. Basically. It's a systematic attack and every time you make a move every
time you show ya some success they try to put rabab killer hand here. Yeah, so So that
the amended and then I meant that they lost. Yes.
This was a small firm. Yeah, Lawfare was executive director said that they're going to make the
enemy pay and they're going to exact a heavy price of anybody who goes against Israel and
she had mentioned this a video San Francisco State and now by the way, she has a promotional
fundraising video on YouTube that talks about my case, but they lost I mean they lost this
with prejudice Prejudice. Okay. It's right there file, which means they can't bring it
again. They appealed to the ninth Circuit Court of Appeal in order for them to tell
their supporters give us money because they have no soot. They have no cause Okay, so
they lost big time and the the filed another lawsuit, but they did not name you. Yeah,
but let me talk about that one. I think it's really really important. You mentioned the
lawyers and the amazing work and and RababBenham who are just incredible and defending me pro
bono and the movement the amazing movement that will together, but the other thing is
that the decision of Judge Aquatic. The decision itself is actually a political decision to
yes, it is. Not at it because the first time he dismissed it on technical, you know reasons
and so on and told them this is what you need to do. If you want to bring gave them two
chances to give them to each other than they came and they came in with the same stuff
and they try to smear and they did all of these things and so on his decision dismiss
with prejudice. I think it's a text book to be read to be read and analyze because for
me it's very gratifying for him to say just because she's anti-zionist and supports Palestinian
resistance does not make her anti-semitic. He allowed as a Judicial notice the whole
website of the United States campaign for academic and cultural boycott of Israel for
he heard arguments. He did not allow them in but they were presented by 12 Jewish scholar
senior Jewish Scholars who said that I'm this is this is doesn't fit. It doesn't really
make sense. They supported me by open Hillel that channel is halal and it's their accordion
and McCarthyism and so on so the lawsuit itself, the text itself actually is a text to be a
so then what Did is they went to the state court and they felt a lot lawsuit against
San Francisco State University and California State University. They don't name me in it,
but they're actually attacking the stuff that they fail they fail to prosecute me on the
question of near Barakat protest on the question of know you right where now they're focusing
on know you're at in the state court and trying to basically bring people to have the position
part of the reason is they failed in the Lawfare lawsuit also, they could not get me to come
give a deposition. They could not get a single piece of paper. They could not they got some
stuff from the University. For example, they have 400 pages of micro responses within the
Jacques National University because if you remember in the first one they fought they
said, oh she's going to undergrad student about terrorism and we need all the stuff
from Amazon has in abundance in University gave them everything. Okay, there is nothing
so then they took it out of the second amended but they didn't say anything and they never
apologized to me for making all these accusations around me. But but we did not give them anything
we Assisted that the Universe should not settle and the university did not settle. They were
going to settle and we said no you cannot you cannot settle for the universe. You can
assert that for me. Well, it's so creamy. I mean my read and I'm not a legal expert
maybe next time. We'll have your lawyers. Yes, Mark and Venom right here. Yeah, but
my read number one, of course, we all know that they have Deep Pockets. Yes, these guys
have ours 800-plus lawyers. They have a million on the unlimited funds. They can file a lawsuit
after lawsuit and they've been doing this. But now I think they're coming to the conclusion
that they've lost. They want to save face and they're going after the institution which
is San Francisco State University or which is easy to give up the Su hoping I think for
a settlement as so they can tell their followers for now. We talked about this before now I
want we have 15 minutes or so. I had to say one of my lawyers actually representing people
in the lawsuit against the Lawfare. Well at San Francisco State Mark Kleiman is also represented
to people in the essay that's another suits and they recently had a they had a win which
know this is different. Also another basically a win for the attack on
the American Uniform American studies before we talk about your loss. Indication yes of
the breaking the solidity of the state business as usual status cool. Israel does no wrong
with support Israel and so on so I do believe I am convinced and everybody knows my belief
is not a secret University knew this before they hired me they already knew because I
was already one of the people who actually worked on the farm during the academic and
cultural boycott of Israel before the BDS movement, you know, the call came out in 2005.
So I'm very clear. My position is very clear. I organized in 2000 1985 National 26 Day 26
City campaign called Israel and South Africa the upper side Connection in the midst of
the anti-apartheid movements when I remember that so people know, you know, it's not a
secret but I am convinced that one of the ways is you really have to a you our job is
to produce knowledge and we need to produce knowledge for justice. Okay, and to do that
that also challenges all the dogmas that exists from support for Israel and so on soap One
of the things is that when you see wrong, there is no way you can justify to your students
that you are supported the wrong. If you don't stand up for justice, you cannot do that,
especially at the public university where it is accountable to the public. I mean, this
is our mission just because some Congress people and some Senators deviate from what
the rule is that does not make it right. My does not make it right and they do wrong we
have to keep challenging and holding people accountable. So everything that has happened.
I mean, look, I'm Association of Asian American studies American studies Association and not
Native American indigenous studies Association National Association for Chicano, Chicana
writes several Association of black studies National Women's studies Association. That's
right. There are social justice peace and Justice as there is some historians oral.
There is so much stuff. This is something that you're not able to stop it was at maybe
at the beginning was a small thing. Now, it's an international movement. They try to take
down Jeremy corbyn. The resume is the one who got embarrassed with the Exit and so on.
So there is you it's very it takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of resources. We don't
have definitely Deep Pockets, but we have the depth of the support of justice for the
movement. Okay is what I want now for our listeners who may be joined us a little late.
That's the voice of Professor Rabab Abdul Hadi founder and director of the Amed program
at San Francisco State. One of the foremost academicians in the world on intersectional
aspects of Palestine and Palestine history. She's an extraordinary academic. You might
lose you might forget that in light of the fact that she's been such a target for 12
years, but actually in spite of that she's been managing to produce an amazing body of
academic research and I think this is the objective is to basically litigate us to death
right to wear us down, but let's get to talk about your lawsuit. This is what's going on.
What's happening with your lawsuit. Okay. So the reason I filed the lawsuit after 12
years being a You're filing the lawsuit to hold the university accountable and basically
Francisco San Francisco State violated my contract. It's a breach of contract rates
for breach of contract. And also there's it is about discrimination racism islamophobia
and the Arab antipolis tinian disparate treatment between also how they are. We are being treated
at San Francisco State and I'm not speaking about all people of color, even though it
is about that is there is also discrimination and racism San Francisco State Ibiza becoming
a police state not only that our police carry tasers, but also for them to even say to David
Horowitz give us a heads up whenever you want to come and put all these nasty posters. Meanwhile,
they do not stop a Nazi, you know, who's putting all this nasty propaganda and all this violent
stuff on their websites and San Francisco State has done everything possible in collusion
with the Zionist. I am convinced that San Francisco State is Going hand-in-hand with
the Zionist not only their donor with designers and with the right wing with mink agenda.
They are basically missing about San Francisco State is supposed to be and they would they
use it. Also they bribe some people they help, you know, as some people things they bad some
people on the back they threaten some people and so on so there is a lot of tools that
is actually a making my life as a person as a scholar. They're trying to make my life
miserable. So I would just shut up and basically it's affected my career because I'm spending
a lot of time defending myself and standing up for to build the program instead of sitting
down writing articles writing things and so on Scott it's constant they constantly use
even bureaucratic the abuse of the bureaucracy little things every single piece of paper
become such a huge thing. My course is now have been taken away from me and and by his
direct direct attack to kind of like undermine the Army studies program and dismantle it
and damage it they using my request for a family medical leave. Exploded against me
too. You know, this is all the pressure tactics. This is no it's your legal, right? This is
what McCarthyism did McCarthyism smears people as for your friend to stand against you hire
scabs threatens your livelihood tries to pressure you since you this we received the death on
the voice mail, but the guy left a message saying Muslims will die. We sent it to the
university. Nobody investigate them. They always said investigate they don't do anything
about that. They have they have violated my disabilities accommodation. They have violated
my contract they have even that they actually denied me my application for difference in
Pay leave next year to do teaching Palestine project. And the way that I get to receive
a letter from the president saying based on your college recommendation. The project is
not well-defined is not doable and it doesn't connect to your career and Mike, you know,
we will be met with it most of it already. We've actually accomplished most of the teaching
post back to your career. Connect your bedroom is your mind. It's not what they're on like.
What do you mean? It's not what defines actually I mean the thing is is that this is only a
lot of examples and we don't have enough time to talk. But that is a very troubling issue.
I mean if you look at the case and we're not exam Francisco State University. It's a public
university supposed to accommodate all people all ethnicity Community creates Etc. When
I walk on campus that are Arabs and Muslims and African-Americans Latinos and whatever
people yes, yeah. I look and maybe I am a nosy journalist. Right? And I look at the
paperwork Etc. There is a major connection and a real connection because we've devoted
actually two shows talking about for example, the the Jewish Community Federation of San
Francisco. And this this work was investigative journalist that were was done by the forward
and other people and others in electronic intifada. We found a hobby that Jazeera that
we found out that they have spent more than three hundred million dollars Jen Diller fun
to show support the support the give a lot of these groups like the oven Horowitz David
home campus watch all the groups that have been harassing you and harassing other academics
and they've been silent about it. And this is because they cannot deny it. We have the
documents from their tax filing. Yes on this then being a nosy person reading. We know
that right here in San Francisco. The jcr see Jewish community relations Council has
conducted several meetings with the president and the higher Echelon at San Francisco State
University Israel, and they took him to his room exactly. So I've been seeing this name.
I know at San Francisco State University there is Jason poor. Yes, and he is the husband
executive director of the University Corporation the university Corporation then digging around
there is also a be poor and she's the executive director of the gist Jesse are see it wasn't
the latest article by the J weekly last week about the case and they are they have Vichy
they have been basically behind the attacks on you. How's this possible? Yes, just a question.
I mean I'd like to know I mean it's $300 worth of and this has been kept out of the media
and I was coming out and we know you know, the three hundred million dollars all these
organizations by the way. It's not just organizations right here in the United States all over the
guy. No, no there is settled and set of an organization which is a better. Wait a minute
the jdl contributed. Yes. Yes. Yes. Issues like about islamophobia about anti-arab sentiments
the community goes through hell just to have a meeting with the administration just to
kind of he hasn't talked about many things left and right and basically trying to destroy
your career at destroy. Our me say Let me let me know. They've met with Anti-Defamation
League Jay CRC is bragging about sensitizing the highest administrators at San Francisco
State on Zionism. That's after president Wong last March said zionists are welcomed and
I criticize them and said this is offensive and so on and they try to actually shut me
down force me to take down the Facebook and it was the dean of the College of ethnic studies
as well as the Provost that participated as the tools doing this they have so they've
been trying to do all of this the also I should just say you as you were mentioning Jason
pores Jess Imports was the chief of staff of President Corrigan when I started I remember
that he also went to speak. He was also the president of their own William Beveridge Jewish
Democratic Club. The Jewish Club isn't Democratic party in San Francisco was one of its goals
is to support Israel in 2010 when Israel targeted the mavi marmara the ship. We went a whole
bunch of us from their Palestinian Arab Muslim communities of Justice went to the Board of
Supervisors. Now remember that scent of us a resolution to condemn the violence and to
also lift the blockade on Gaza. I spoke at the first week the second week who speaks
is what Jason pores telling the Board of Supervisors that this is not an issue that concerns San
Francisco. It's a foreign issue very far away and San franciscans should not be involving
themselves with foreign affairs and so on which is very interesting because they he
was one of the people who was involvement in near Burkett to campus. I mean, so if you
don't want to get involved in whatever, what are you doing bringing the mayor of occupied
Jerusalem to speak on campus he so he is Against that then I had when I was trying to do that
website scholarship. He actually tried to block it and I had to get in touch with Miriam.
Sorry to say that the state actually doesn't have a problem with it and Miriam and the
children were not children anymore. They actually support this is my husband was an educator
with her bob is doing his education. We supported all Oddity. He tried to last year he pressured
and he succeeded in getting the dean to ensure the room which lasts it was yesterday the
anniversary of teach in Palace on of San Francisco State February 7. Mm. They he everything will
time. I submit a request for travel authorization, especially to Palestine is a mou with amnesia.
They always say to me to try to change it and they hold it up and they say you're not
going to get reimbursed. You need to change it in consultation with the presence of his
and I said, no because I've already consulted with the president of his we already have
the memorandum understand. I'm not going to change it. So I get an email from the dean
saying you're not going to get reimbursed and then I said no I'm going to I'm going
to do it anyway, and they said you will look at them. And I said this one also right Bob
says I Yeah, I want to just say cuz we only have a couple of minutes left. We'll continue
some of this next week. We get lots of calls about what people can do to support you. Like
well, I know I'm not supposed to ask for funding is no but this is not about fundraising going
to say well, what about a website want people that is a website. There is multiple website.
That is a website called the international campaign to support Professor Abdul Hadi there
is what's the website? It's on Facebook. It's all just go good. Go. Google. Roberto has
come up. Okay, but we really want I want people to call San Francisco State now and ask them.
Why did they cancel my classes? What did they take my classes away from me? Why did they
mess up with the course that Sahara below the executive director of care was going to
teach and now we lost it anymore. Why do they continue messing up with Mike? Why are they
using my application for study abroad in Palestine to mess up with my summer courses? Why are
they continuing to punish us left? And right. What's the phone number for San Francisco?
It's in the way. I can give it to you. If you want to put it on the website Yeah, we
actually have it in one of my Facebook. I have the president. The the president of the
in and the interim president called the dean called the Provost and ask them. Why are they
why are they attacking you? Why are they why are they hands of I think hands of rubber
bands of armored. This should be has of our students. This should be the bottom line.
I would say also follow the money follow the three hundred million dollars that have been
spent on basically attacking academic freedom defaming Muslims defaming Arab Scholars, defending
defending Palestinians and students and also in your basically I assume new discovery.
We will get to see who are the key players who have been treating with who especially
give us public which I find it funny because Trump Scandal is about who met with whom and
one way once when and where and once we get to all of this we're going to be naming names.
They tune. This is Arab Talk on KPOO, San Francisco. Make sure you basically go to our
website at arbtalkadio.com. We have all our archived shows. Also we broadcast live on
KPOO 89.5 FM San Francisco, and we want to thank Professor Abdulhadi you again for her
for her steadfastness and we'll see you next week. I'm glad by the Palestinian people and
people around the world stay tuned. We'll see you next week.
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