♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
>> WELCOME TO "SHADES OF US."
ON THIS EPISODE WE LOOK AT
THE GENERATIONAL PERSPECTIVES
OF RACE AND ETHNICITY,
THROUGH THE EYES OF A BLACK
SOCIOLOGIST WITH EUROPEAN AND
NATIVE AMERICAN BACKGROUND.
A MULTIRACIAL JEWISH MILLENNIAL
COLLEGE STUDENT AND MY OWN
CHILDREN WHO ARE MIX OF HAITIAN
AND WHITE.
WE START THE CONVERSATION WITH
ANN MORNING.
♪
♪
>> MY NAME IS ANN MORNING.
I AM AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR
OF SOCIOLOGY AT NYU.
I THINK OF MYSELF AS BOTH
A SOCIOLOGIST AND A DEMOGRAPHER.
THE QUESTION OF RACIAL AMBIGUITY
HAS BEEN A PART OF MY EXPERIENCE
SINCE MY EARLIEST CHILDHOOD.
I HAD A BABYSITTER
WHEN I WAS FOUR YEARS
OLD WHO ASKED ME WHAT RACE ARE
YOU, IS YOUR FAMILY WHITE OR
BLACK?
AT THE TIME, I DIDN'T KNOW.
I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT SHE WAS
TALKING ABOUT.
I SAID I DON'T KNOW BUT I WILL
ASK MY PARENTS AND SHE SAID NO,
DON'T ASK YOUR PARENTS.
BUT OF COURSE, I DID THAT NIGHT
AT THE DINNER TABLE.
I STILL REMEMBER WHEN I ASKED
THAT QUESTION, ARE WE WHITE OR
BLACK?
I REMEMBER THIS
SILENCE DISSENTING ON THE ROOM.
I CAN ONLY IMAGINE WHAT MY
PARENTS FELT.
THEY MUST'VE FELT LIKE THIS IS
THE END OF INNOCENCE.
MY DAD SAID WE ARE BLACK, HONEY.
I WAS LIKE OK.
FOR ME, IT MEANT NOTHING.
MY MOTHER AND MY DAD IN ADDITION
TO THEIR AFRICAN ANCESTRY
HAVE EUROPEAN AND NATIVE
AMERICAN ANCESTRY AND MY
MOTHER ALSO HAD ASIAN ANCESTRY.
THEY GREW UP VERY MUCH IN THE
ERA OF THE ONE DROP RULE SO
THOSE OTHER PIECES OF THEIR
ANCESTRY WERE NEVER SALIENT
FOR THEM.
MY PARENTS FELT VERY MUCH AT
HOME AT HARLEM.
BUT FOR ME, IT WAS A LITTLE
BIT OF A SCHIZOPHRENIC
EXPERIENCE BECAUSE WHEN I GREW
UP IN HARLEM, I WAS GOING EVERY
DAY TO SCHOOL AT AN
INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL, THE
UNITED NATIONS' SCHOOL IN
MANHATTAN.
I WENT THERE FROM KINDERGARTEN
THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL.
THAT WAS A WORLD WHICH WAS NOT
ONLY VERY DIVERSE MUCH MORE SO
THAN HARLEM WAS BUT IT WAS ALSO
A WORLD WHICH DID NOT HAVE THE
SAME KIND OF IDEAS ABOUT RACE
AND RACIAL IDENTITY THAT THE
PEOPLE I KNEW IN HARLEM HAD.
IN HARLEM, I WAS JUST BLACK.
IT WAS UNREMARKABLE IN THAT
NEIGHBORHOOD AND I GOT SOME
TEASING FOR BEING LIGHT-SKINNED.
PEOPLE CALLED ME HIGH YELLOW AND
PEOPLE DID NOT LIKE ME BECAUSE
OF WHAT THEY THOUGHT I WAS LIKE
BECAUSE OF THE WAY I LOOKED SO I
WAS CONSCIOUS.
AT THE SAME TIME, GOING TO THE
UNITED NATIONS SCHOOL, I WAS IN
A WORLD WHERE GENERALLY PEOPLE
DIDN'T SEE ME AS BLACK.
MAYBE THEY WOULD SEE ME AS MIXED
AND I HAVE THE EXPERIENCE OF
CLASSMATES WHO WERE FROM AFRICA
WHO WOULD SAY WHY DO YOU CALL
YOURSELF BLACK?
WE WOULDN'T CONSIDER YOU BLACK.
IN OUR COUNTRIES WE WOULDN'T
THINK OF YOU AS BLACK.
IT NEVER CROSSED MY MIND I
MIGHT NOT BE GOOD AT SOMETHING
BECAUSE OF MY BACKGROUND.
I DIDN'T GROW UP IN A SETTING
WHERE THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO LOOK
LIKE ME RETRACT INTO THE LOWER
TIER CLASSES.
I DIDN'T GROW UP IN A SITUATION
WHERE MY TEACHERS WERE ALL
WHITE, FOR EXAMPLE AND I DIDN'T
HAVE ANY ROLE MODELS OF COLOR.
I HAD FABULOUS MATH TEACHERS
FROM THE CARIBBEAN, FROM INDIA.
I WAS USED TO SEEING OTHER
PEOPLE OF COLOR HOLDING
IMPORTANT POSITIONS AND BEING
REALLY RESPECTED SCHOLARS,
AND TEACHERS.
I REALLY WENT TO COLLEGE WITH A
LOT OF CONFIDENCE THAT I THINK
ALL TOO OFTEN, KIDS OF COLOR IN
THE UNITED STATES DON'T GET.
THEY ARE TOO OFTEN IN SCHOOL
SYSTEMS WHERE THEY ARE MADE TO
FEEL EITHER LIKE OUTSIDERS OR
THEY ARE NOT REALLY EXPECTED TO
ACHIEVE.
MY PARENTS TALKED A LOT ABOUT
RACE.
THERE WERE LOTS OF DINNERTABLE
CONVERSATIONS.
I THINK MY PARENTS WERE THIS
KIND OF CLASSIC BLACK
BOURGEOISIE.
THEY WERE PRIVILEGED,
PROFESSIONALS AND THEY KNEW
THERE WERE OFTEN OPERATING IN
PROFESSIONAL SETTINGS WHERE THEY
WERE THE ONLY BLACK PEOPLE AND A
LOT OF WHAT CONSUMED THEIR
ENERGY WAS THIS
QUEST TO BRING OTHER
PEOPLE ALONG, TO DIVERSIFY THE
SETTINGS THEY WERE WORKING IN.
AS A KID, IT SEEMED INCREDIBLY
BORING.
I ALSO THOUGHT MY PARENTS
WERE LIVING IN ANOTHER ERA.
I THOUGHT THEY WERE HOPELESSLY
OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE TIMES
UNTIL I GOT TO COLLEGE.
I WENT TO YALE AND VERY QUICKLY,
I REALIZED MY PARENTS HAD BEEN
ONTO SOMETHING.
IN MY FRESHMAN YEAR OF
COLLEGE --
A WHITE STUDENT SAID
TO ME, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT
OF WHITE GUYS HERE WHO ARE
INTERESTED IN DATING BLACK WOMEN
AS THEY THINK THEY ARE
SEXUALLY EASY.
BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I WAS SHOCKED
TO HEAR THAT.
I HAD NEVER HEARD THAT AND THE
FIRST THING THAT CAME TO MIND
FOR ME WAS MY GRANDMOTHER, MY
STERN GRANDMOTHER FROM OHIO WHO
WAS THE LAST -- THE FURTHEST
THING AWAY FROM ANY KIND OF
PERMISSIVE PERSON.
I WAS IN COLLEGE AT THE TIME IN
THE TERM AFRICAN-AMERICAN GOT
PICKED UP.
IN FACT, I REMEMBER IT VIVIDLY
BECAUSE I STARTED COLLEGE AS
BLACK.
I DID A JUNIOR YEAR ABROAD IN
FRANCE AND I CAME BACK AND FOUND
OUT THAT I WAS AFRICAN-AMERICAN.
BY THE TIME I FINISHED COLLEGE,
I HAD BEEN EXPOSED TO SO MANY
DIFFERENT CLAIMS THAT DIFFERENT
PEOPLE MADE ABOUT HOW I SHOULD
IDENTIFY MYSELF -- I SHOULD SAY
I'M BLACK OR MIXED AND IN FRANCE
I LEARNED I SHOULD NOT SAY THAT
I AM BLACK.
I THINK IT MADE ME COME DOWN IN
A PARTICULAR PLACE FOR MYSELF
AND SAY I THINK OF MYSELF
LARGELY AS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN
PERSON BECAUSE I UNDERSTAND THIS
IS PART OF THE BLACK AMERICAN
EXPERIENCE.
IT'S TOTALLY CONSISTENT BEING
AFRICAN-AMERICAN AND BEING A
PERSON WHO HAS NON-AFRICAN
ANCESTRY.
THEY TOTALLY WORK TOGETHER.
BY THE END OF IT, I CAME OUT
FEELING VERY COMFORTABLE WITH MY
IDENTITY AS AFRICAN-AMERICAN
EVEN THOUGH I KNEW I WOULD
CONTINUE TO HAVE EXPERIENCES
WHERE PEOPLE MIGHT CHALLENGE
THAT.
I FOUND MYSELF ONE
NIGHT IN THE LIBRARY AS A
STUDENT READING SOME WORK FROM A
MID-20TH CENTURY ANTHROPOLOGIST
NAMED ASHLEY MONTAGU WHO HAD
WRITTEN A TERRIFIC BOOK,
CALLED " MAN'S MOST DANGEROUS
MYTH: THE FALLACY OF RACE."
HE TALKS ABOUT WHAT WE KNOW
ABOUT BIOLOGY AND HOW WHAT WE
KNOW ABOUT BIOLOGY EVEN AT THAT
TIME IN THE 1950s WAS ENOUGH TO
TELL US THERE WERE NO SUCH
THINGS AS DISCRETE, OBJECTIVE
RACISTS THAT HUMAN BEINGS AND
BIOLOGICAL VARIATIONS IN
HUMAN SPECIES IS SO BLENDED AND
GRADUAL AS WE MOVE ACROSS THE
WORLD THAT THERE IS NO KIND OF
SHARP LINE SPLITTING US UP INTO
CATEGORIES LIKE BLACK OR WHITE.
IT GOT ME THINKING THAT IF
PEOPLE KNEW THIS ALREADY ABOUT
HUMAN BIOLOGY, GENETICS, HOW IS
IT THIS MESSAGE IS NOT MORE
WIDELY SPREAD?
THAT QUEST TO UNDERSTAND
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MESSAGE OF
RACE BEING SOCIALLY CONSTRUCTED
IS WHAT INSPIRED ME TO WRITE THE
BOOK "THE NATURE OF RACE."
I TRY TO STUDY WHAT IT IS PEOPLE
IN DIFFERENT DISCIPLINES HAVE TO
SAY ABOUT RACE AND HOW THEIR
MESSAGES ARE RECEIVED BY THE
PUBLIC.
I WAS INTERESTED IN WHAT WAS
GOING ON WITH THE CENSUS, THESE
DEBATES ABOUT MAYBE THE RACIAL
CATEGORY OF THE CENSUS, MAYBE IT
SHOULD BE CHANGED TO BE JUST TO
HAVE PEOPLE IDENTIFIES A MIXED
RACE.
I HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF SERVING
ON THE NATIONAL ADVISORY
COMMITTEE FOR RACIAL ETHNIC AND
OTHER POPULATIONS SINCE 2013.
SINCE THE ELECTION OF PRESIDENT
TRUMP, MANY THINGS WE THOUGHT WE
WOULD BE ABLE TO DO HAVE BEEN
ROLLED BACK.
WE WERE ON TRACK TO REVISE THE
CENSUS QUESTIONS IN A WAY THAT
WOULD ALLOW FOR THE FIRST TIME
HISPANIC OR LATINO BOX AND
THERE WOULD BE A BOX FOR PEOPLE
OF MIDDLE EASTERN OR NORTH
AFRICAN ORIGIN AT
THE REQUEST OF PEOPLE IN THOSE
COMMUNITIES.
THE ADMINISTRATION HAS ALSO
INTRODUCED A PLAN TO PUT
CITIZENSHIP QUESTION ON THE
CENSUS.
ALL OF THESE THINGS I THINK ARE
GOING TO HAVE A VERY NEGATIVE
IMPACT ON HOW WE CAPTURE THE
RACIAL AND ETHNIC DIVERSITY OF
THIS COUNTRY.
♪
>> COLLEGES AN INSTITUTION
PREPARE PEOPLE FOR THE WORLD.
YOU'RE ABOUT TO MEET
A STUDENT WHO REACHES
BEYOND THE CLASSROOM.
HERE IS CHELSEA GREEN.
♪
♪
>> MY NAME IS CHELSEA GREEN AND
I'M ONE QUARTER BLACK, THREE
QUARTERS WHITE.
SOMETIMES I GO INTO DIFFERENT
COMMUNITIES WONDERING IF I WOULD
FIT IN THERE.
I AM ALWAYS LOOKING I GUESS FOR
A SENSE OF THAT BELONGING.
I HAVE YET TO REALLY FIND IT IN
A RACIAL WAY.
I GREW UP WITH MY MOTHER, NOT MY
FATHER.
MY MOM SOMETIMES FELT LIKE SHE
NEVER FIT IN.
CERTAINLY RACIALLY AS A BIRACIAL
WOMAN, SHE PROBABLY IDENTIFIES
BEING BIRACIAL.
MY DAD IS AN ASHKENAZI JEWISH.
MY RACE IS MORE COMPLICATED THAN
WHAT I TELL PEOPLE.
I WOULD IDENTIFY MORE WITH A
MULTIRACIAL BECAUSE OF THE FACT
THAT THE ASHKENAZI JEWISH
ETHNICITY WAS SO MEANINGFUL AND
IMPORTANT TO THE EXPERIENCES OF
MY FAMILY MEMBERS.
EVEN SO BEING JEWISH IS NOT A
RACE, IT SOMEHOW FEELS MORE
APPROPRIATE TO SAY THAT I'M
MULTIRACIAL THAN JUST BIRACIAL.
MY MOM IS A VERY VIBRANT PERSON
AND SHE'S COMPLICATED IN MANY
WAYS AND I LOVE HER A LOT.
SHE GREW UP WITH TWO PARENTS,
HER MOTHER IS WHITE AND HER
FATHER WAS BLACK.
MY MOM NEVER FELT REALLY QUITE
WHITE ENOUGH OR QUITE BLACK
ENOUGH SO I, TOO, NEVER FELT
QUITE WHITE ENOUGH OR QUITE
BLACK ENOUGH.
IT FELT LIKE I JUST OCCUPIED ALL
OF THE CATEGORIES AND YET NONE
OF THEM.
I THINK GROWING UP WITH SOMEONE
SO CLOSE, YOU TAKE ON A LOT OF
THEIR VISION AND THEIR
PERSPECTIVE ON THE WORLD.
WHEN I WAS GROWING UP WITH MY
MOTHER, WE WATCHED A LOT OF NEWS
IN THE EVENINGS.
WHEN I CAME HOME FROM SCHOOL IN
HIGH SCHOOL, I SAT DOWN AND
STARTED MY HOMEWORK AND
BASICALLY WATCHED SEVERAL NEWS
BROADCASTS THAT GO BACK TO BACK.
I WATCHED NHK WORLD, RUSSIA
TODAY, BBC AMERICA, BBC WORLD,
AL JAZEERA TO SEE HOW THEY
PORTRAYED THE WORLD FROM MANY
DIFFERENT ANGLES.
MY WINDOW ON THE WORLD WAS
FAIRLY SMALL AND WATCHING THESE
NEWS OUTLETS AND THEIR TAKE ON
THE WORLD OUTSIDE OF THE THINGS
I HAVE NEVER SEEN WAS REALLY
IMPORTANT TO ME.
I GREW UP IN THE SAN FERNANDO
VALLEY IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA,
IT'S PART OF LOS ANGELES COUNTY.
FOR THE FIRST TIME I HOPPED ONTO
THE PLANE WAS WHEN I WAS 19
YEARS OLD TO COME SEE MY
BROTHERS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN
MANY YEARS HERE IN NEW YORK
CITY.
MY BROTHER JONAH AND I WOULD GO
OUT FOR ICE CREAM WITH MY DAD.
IT WAS OFTEN JUST THREE OF US
AND SOMETIMES WE WOULD GET
TOGETHER WITH MY YOUNGER BROTHER
AUBREY.
AND WE WOULD ALL SPEND TIME
TOGETHER AND THAT WAS REALLY
MEANINGFUL TO ME.
THEY MOVED TO NEW YORK CITY.
I DIDN'T GET TO SEE THEM FOR A
WHILE UNTIL I FINALLY CAME OUT
AND GOT TO VISIT THEM.
THE CULMINATION OF THESE FAMILY
EXPERIENCES SOMETIMES MAKES ME
FEEL LIKE I'M SO GRATEFUL TO
HAVE COME AS FAR AS I HAVE AND
I HAVE SOMETHING BIGGER TO
SERVE HERE.
I AM A PHD STUDENT AT HARVARD
UNIVERSITY, STUDYING
INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS.
I WOULD SAY THAT MY EXPERIENCES
AND MY BACKGROUND INFORMED THE
KIND OF QUESTIONS I ASK IN THE
CLASSROOM AND THE QUESTIONS I AM
GOING TO ASK IN MY RESEARCH.
RECENT PEER RESEARCH DATA HAS
ILLUSTRATED THAT MILLENNIALS ARE
MORE CONSCIOUS ABOUT GENDER
INEQUALITY THAN PEOPLE FROM
PREVIOUS GENERATIONS.
I THINK THE SAME IS TRUE WHEN IT
COMES TO ISSUES AROUND RACE.
WHEN I SEE GRADUATE STUDENTS
AROUND ME TALKING ABOUT RACE AND
TALKING ABOUT GENDER INEQUALITY
AND MAYBE NOT SEEING PROFESSORS
DOING AS MUCH AS THE SAME THING,
I DON'T THINK THEY ARE
NECESSARILY DEVIATING FROM WHAT
THEIR GENERATIONS ARE DOING IN
GENERAL.
THE GOOD THING IS THAT BECAUSE
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT, THEY
ARE STARTING TO TALK ABOUT IT.
WHEN WE CALL IT OUT, THEY START
TO LISTEN.
I WAS PRIVILEGED TO TAKE A CLASS
WITH CONDOLEEZZA RICE, MY SENIOR
YEAR OF COLLEGE.
AFTER THAT CLASS WAS OVER, A FEW
PEOPLE GOT TOGETHER AND DECIDED
THEY WANTED TO DO DIRECTED
READING WITH HER.
APPARENTLY, I WAS SELECTED
BECAUSE I WAS NOT AFRAID OF
ASKING THE HARD QUESTIONS AND I
WASN'T AFRAID OF LOOKING STUPID
FOR ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS.
WE NEED TO BE ASKING QUESTIONS
THAT ARE UNCOMFORTABLE AND NOT
NECESSARILY REPRESENTATIVE OF
CONVENTIONAL VIEWPOINTS AND I
CARE ABOUT WHO IS NOT BEING
INCLUDED IN THE CONVERSATIONS
AND WHOSE INTERESTS ARE BEING
TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT AND NOT INTO
ACCOUNT WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE
AMERICAN NATIONAL INTERESTS OR
WHOSE SECURITY WE ARE SERVING
AND SECURING.
THOSE KIND OF QUESTIONS ARE AT
THE HEART OF MY RESEARCH.
WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT ROLE
RACE PLAYS IN CONSTRUCTING AND
SHAPING OUR LIVES AND HOW WE
THINK ABOUT IT WHEN WE INTERACT
WITH OTHER PEOPLE SO THAT
WE REALIZE WHETHER OR NOT WE
ARE PERPETUATING INEQUALITIES OR
WHETHER WE ARE SAYING THINGS ARE
TRULY UNJUST TO OTHER PEOPLE.
♪
>> AS A PARENT, REACHING OUT TO
ONE'S CHILDREN CAN BE
CHALLENGING.
THIS IS A TALK I HAD WITH MY
BIRACIAL CHILDREN, MINA AND
CAMERON, ON THE TOPIC OF RACE.
♪
>> WANT TO START THE
CONVERSATION BY LETTING YOU GUYS
KNOW THAT WHEN I MET YOUR MOM IN
1988 AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT
GETTING MARRIED AND I WAS AFRAID
OF THAT IDEA OF MARRYING A WHITE
WOMAN SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE IN
1980s, I WAS NOT SURE I WANTED
TO BE PART OF AN INTERRACIAL
RELATIONSHIP BECAUSE OF THE
CHILDREN.
IN 2019, HOW DO YOU GUYS FEEL
ABOUT MY FEARS THEN AND THE
REALITY TODAY?
>> I THINK WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO
HAVE A RELATIVELY NORMAL LIFE.
I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE'RE THAT
MUCH DIFFERENT THAN OTHER
FAMILIES WHO ARE NOT MULTIRACIAL
OR MULTICULTURAL.
>> PEOPLE DON'T REALLY
UNDERSTAND BIRACIAL MARRIAGES
AND BIRACIAL FAMILIES AND THE
NEED TO JUST WANT TO BLEND AND
MAKE YOUR FAMILY DIFFERENT.
I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS LITTLE, I
HAD A TEACHER WHO ASKED ME IF
YOU AND MOM WERE RELATED BECAUSE
OF OUR LAST NAME.
IT WAS SO WEIRD TO ME.
I THINK I WAS LIKE FOUR OR FIVE
YEARS OLD.
I SAID MY DAD IS BLACK AND MY
MOM IS WHITE.
>> YOU WERE ALWAYS SORT OF LIKE
EXERTING, WANT TO LET
PEOPLE KNOW THAT YOU ARE BLACK.
WHY WAS THAT SO IMPORTANT TO
YOU?
>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO ME
BECAUSE ANY TIME I TELL PEOPLE
THAT I AM HAITIAN, THEY ARE
SHOCKED.
THEY'D GENUINELY SHOCKED.
THEY WOULD NEVER BELIEVE I COULD
BE HAITIAN.
IT KIND OF BOTHERS ME THAT
PEOPLE CANNOT REALIZE THAT IN
EVERY COUNTRY, THERE CAN BE
MULTIPLE DIFFERENT RACES.
I FEEL LIKE I HAVE THE FEATURES
OF A HAITIAN PERSON.
I FEEL LIKE I RESEMBLE YOU
MORE THAN MOM.
IT'S ALWAYS IMPORTANT TO ME THAT
PEOPLE KNOW I AM HAITIAN.
BUT I'M VERY LIGHT SKIN.
>> YOU HAVE A MUCH MORE NUANCED
VIEW ON THIS.
CAN YOU TALK TO US ABOUT WHEN
YOU WERE YOUNGER AND HOW YOU
FELT?
>> I CONSIDERED MYSELF BLACK OR
AT LEAST MIXED BLACK.
I DID NOT THINK ABOUT RACE
AS CRITICALLY AS I DO NOW.
IT WAS AROUND THE TIME OF WHEN
TRAYVON MARTIN WAS KILLED AND
THEN MICHAEL BROWN AND I STARTED
TO TRULY REALIZE THE EXTENT OF
INEQUALITY IN THIS COUNTRY
ESPECIALLY AS IT PERTAINED TO
RAISE.
WHEN I WAS YOUNGER, THERE WERE
THINGS THAT PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE
SAID TO ME WAYS THAT PEOPLE
ACTED AROUND ME.
IT STARTED TO COME BACK TO ME.
>> YOU HAVE A CHOICE TO DECIDE
WHAT YOU WANT TO BE UNLIKE ME.
YOU CHOSE TO ASSUME -- TO ASSERT
YOUR BLACK IDENTITY.
WHY DID YOU MAKE THAT CHOICE?
>> I THINK THERE IS LESS CHOICE
INVOLVED IN IT THAN YOU ARE
CONSIDERING.
THERE IS THIS ADAGE I'VE HEARD
ABOUT IF YOU ARE A MIXED RACE --
MIXED RACE PEOPLE CHOOSE TO BE
MORE WHITE OR SOME MIXED-RACE
PEOPLE CHOOSE TO BE MORE BLACK.
I THINK IS PRETTY REDUCTIVE.
WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE WHITE OR
BLACK IN OUR SOCIETY THAT IS
OBSESSED WITH RACIAL PURITY?
IT'S BEEN A PERSISTENT THEME.
HALF WHITE DOESN'T ACTUALLY
EXIST AS A CONCEPT.
IF YOU ARE HALF WHITE HALF
BLACK, YOU ARE BLACK.
SO ON AND SO FORTH, THERE IS NO
-- IF YOU ARE NOT WHITE, YOU ARE
NOT WHITE.
>> HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT YOUR
COUSINS FROM INDIANA, THE WHITE
SIDE OF YOUR FAMILY?
>> I NEVER REALLY SAW ANY
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US.
I NEVER LOOKED AT THEM LIKE THEY
ARE WHITE AND I'M BLACK.
THEY WERE ALWAYS JUST MY FAMILY.
>> WHEN YOU INTERACT WITH MY
FAMILY IN NEW YORK, HOW IS THAT?
>> GROWING UP, IT ALWAYS FELT
PRETTY NORMAL.
THEY WERE ALSO MY COUSINS.
THE ONLY WEIRD PART IS WHEN YOU
ARE IN A ROOM FULL OF MINORITIES
OR COLORED PEOPLE, IT'S LIKE THE
WAY A WHITE PERSON WOULD FEEL IN
A ROOM FULL OF ALL BLACK PEOPLE.
YOU FEEL LIKE PEOPLE LOOK AT YOU
A LITTLE MORE --
I HAVE HAD THAT FROM FAMILY WHEN
THEY SAY YOU HAVE A NICE COLOR.
>> YOU DO.
>> IT'S FUNNY HEARING THINGS
LIKE THAT FROM YOUR SIDE OF THE
FAMILY.
YOU HAVE SUCH A NICE COLOR.
I FEEL THE SAME ABOUT YOU, YOU
HAVE A NICE COLOR.
I HAVE PINK AND BLUE BUT YOU
HAVE A NICE SKIN TONE.
IT FELT A LITTLE COMPETITIVE.
IN ALL COUNTRIES, THE LIGHTER
YOU ARE, THE PRETTIER YOU ARE.
THAT'S ABSURD.
ESPECIALLY IN HAITI, I FEEL IT'S
TRUE THAT THE LIGHTER YOU ARE --
>> THE HIGHER YOUR SOCIAL
STATUS.
>> RIGHT, SO I ALWAYS FELT A
LITTLE RESENTMENT BECAUSE OF MY
COLOR.
I DO GET TREATED A LITTLE
DIFFERENTLY.
>> OUR HIGH SCHOOL WAS PROBABLY
ONE OF THE MORE DIVERSE HIGH
SCHOOLS.
THIS COMMUNITY IN GENERAL OF NEW
ROCHELLE IS PRETTY RACIALLY
DIVERSE.
>> IT'S REALLY EASY TO BE
MYSELF.
IN HIGH SCHOOL, NO ONE REALLY
CARED.
IT WAS MORE WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER
THAT PEOPLE WERE JUST -- OH MY
GOSH, YOUR DAD IS BLACK, YOUR
MOM'S WHITE, THAT'S ABSURD BUT
BY THE TIME IT GOT TO HIGH
SCHOOL, IT WAS SO COMMON.
MY BEST FRIEND IS BLACK.
ONE TIME MY DAD TOOK ME TO
GET MY EARS PIERCED.
THE ONLY TIME WE HAVE EVER GONE
TO THE MALL.
THE WOMAN WENT TO MY DAD AND SHE
SAID YOU CANNOT TAKE OTHER
PEOPLE'S CHILDREN TO GET THEIR
EARS PIERCED.
MY FRIEND SAID THAT'S HER DAD.
>> IT'S INTERESTING HOW POP
CULTURE, PARTICULARLY HOW
COMMERCIALS, -- EVERY OTHER
COMMERCIAL HAS MIXED-RACE --
THEY ARE INTERACTING WITH THE
WHITE GRANDDAD.
>> IT'S GOOD THAT WE HAVE MORE
DIVERSITY IN VARIOUS ASPECTS OF
OUR LIFE.
IT WOULD BE NAIVE TO JUST JUMP
AT THAT AND SEE WE HAVE REACHED
THE ULTIMATE PROGRESS.
>> POST-RACIAL AMERICA.
>> I THINK A COUPLE OF CHEERIOS
COMMERCIALS WILL NOT CUT IT.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE
STATE OF RACE RELATIONS IN THIS
COUNTRY TODAY?
>> IN THE UNITED STATES, WE HAVE
SEEN THAT PEOPLE CARE SO MUCH
ABOUT STAYING WITH WHO YOU ARE.
I THINK NOW THAT DONALD TRUMP
IS PRESIDENT, PEOPLE ARE
STARTING TO OPEN THEIR EYES AND
REALIZE THAT IT'S OK TO MAKE
MY FAMILY DIFFERENT AND IT'S OK
TO BE DIFFERENT.
>> I SAW SOME STATISTIC
WHERE MOST WHITE PEOPLE DON'T
KNOW ANY BLACK PEOPLE AND MOST
BLACK PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ANY
WHITE PEOPLE.
WE EXIST IN THIS COUNTRY
TOGETHER BUT THE BLACK AND WHITE
COMMUNITIES ARE STRANGERS
TO EACH OTHER.
I THINK THAT'S WHERE YOU CAN GET
THE DISTRUST FACTOR THAT
IS HISTORICALLY BUILT UP
BETWEEN THESE TWO COMMUNITIES.
>> ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS IS
POLISH.
SPEAKS POLISH AND THE
PARENTS DON'T REALLY SPEAK
ENGLISH.
ANOTHER ONE OF MY REALLY GOOD
FRIENDS IS JAMAICAN, BORN IN
JAMAICA, ALL THAT.
NOW THEY ARE GOOD FRIENDS.
TWO PEOPLE FROM COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE WORLD ARE
FRIENDS BECAUSE THEIR MIXED
FRIEND BROUGHT THEM TOGETHER.
>> MIXED PEOPLE CAN ONLY DO SO
MUCH TO FIX RACISM.
THERE HAVE BEEN MIXED PEOPLE FOR
THE ENTIRE HISTORY.
WE CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH ON OUR
OWN.
>> THE ROLE THAT YOUR WHITE
GRANDPARENTS PLAYED IN MY LIFE
AND HOW WHEN I HAD MY
HESITATIONS ABOUT GETTING INTO A
BIRACIAL RELATIONSHIP,
ONE OF THE THINGS I LOOK FOR WAS
WHAT WOULD BE THEIR REACTION?
THEIR REACTION, AS FAR AS THEY
WERE CONCERNED, THEY WERE
LOOKING AT A PERSON, NOT AT A
BLACK OR WHITE PERSON.
THAT'S WHAT WAS IMPORTANT TO
THEM.
THEY ARE IN THEIR 70s NOW BUT
THEY WERE REALLY PROGRESSIVE AND
THEY ARE SIMPLE PEOPLE FROM
THE MIDWEST BUT YET, THEY HAD
THESE VALUES THAT THEY WILL NOT
PREJUDGE PEOPLE BASED ON THE
COLOR OF THEIR SKIN.
I THINK THAT'S THE IMPORTANT
THING.
PARENTS HAVE TO PLAY A ROLE.
IF YOU SEE CHILDREN HAVING
RACIAL TENDENCIES, YOU HAVE TO
GET THEM STRAIGHT.
♪
>> THAT'S OUR SHOW FOR TODAY, TO
LEARN MORE ABOUT THIS, LOG ON TO
OUR WEBSITE AT
TV.CUNY.EDU
THANKS FOR JOINING US AND WE
WILL SEE YOU NEXT TIME ON
"SHADES OF US."
♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
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