welcome to the traffic domination podcast where entrepreneurs come for
traffic answers and here are your hosts Rob Reese and Wayne Pro hey guys thank
you so much for watching and listening to the traffic domination podcast this
is robbery along with your main host Wayne Crowe how's it going Wayne nobody
listen every time I hear the intro of our podcast theme I get all pumped up I
get all revved up and today we absolutely need to be revved up we need
to have high energy on this one because the topic isn't the most sexist of
topics however it is absolutely pivotal that every single marketer doing
business online is aware of this and is prepared for what is about to come on
May 25th 2018 because as you know Wayne gdpr is right around the corner right
here gdpr what is it global protection that you know what is it what is it
general regulation you see this is exactly why we decided to get a our
special guest on today his name is Chris Harris this guy is ok just I can already
tell he's brilliant first of all it's because he's got a English accent I
think every English person has immediately about 25 points higher of an
IQ simply because of your accent except for Wayne except for one thanks right
but Chris Harris is is is a excellent person to speak to regarding these gdpr
regulations because he's currently a consultant with company that is in
charge of you know putting this information out there and and he's been
living the laptop lifestyle for the last four years in the UK right am I
right on that Chris yeah about that yeah okay so you've been in the internet
marketing industry for for a little while now and and you you let us know in
your bio that you your fiance is a gynecologist okay let's sit let me say
that is a very interesting thing to put on a bio my wife is a gynecologist okay
what do we do I look at vagina listen to this we don't we've been protecting her
name but but I do want to say before we get into the meat of this subject guys
we are not legal professionals we're not lawyers so anything that you receive as
information from here is meant to be taken with a grain of salt we are not
responsible for your legal advice or anything of that measure when it comes
to privacy privacy or gdpr although those things will be discussed on
today's episode now now up until recently okay I was like
whatever about this gdpr stuff okay I'm an American you know I'm a dumb American
that doesn't really care that much about these things unless it directly affects
me and then soon enough I found out it's gonna affect me and I don't want some
some some British guy for the British military or the EU military banging on
my door claiming that I owe them $10,000 so first and foremost give us a little
give us a little bit of background on who you are what were you doing before
marketing why we should listen to you Chris okay um I've been in the UK
financial advice industry basically on pensions and with a colleague of mine we
started a company up in 2007 and we did our marketing purely off the internet
so we were putting up special landing pages etc and that's where we collected
our data from that still continues to this day
Facebook marketing and online and some offline marketing email marketing we
found doesn't work for us so we stopped doing that now however we still use
email and obviously in that sort of area we collect a hell of a lot of data off
people so these regulations are pretty pretty onerous on the companies that do
any financial advisor in the UK ouu for that matter because it is EU wide and
that's it however for pure marketing online which you guys are into things
are I want to say a little bit simpler
you're not collecting things like dates of birth and family names and health
details and stuff like that which you need to do in financial advice awesome
so you're telling us there's some good news there listen good let me ask you
this based on the amount of information we take like you just said if we have to
pull in not only a first and last name not only an email address but also date
of birth or social security number or any of these other items right yeah
you're saying that the least the less amount of information we take the better
off we are to some degree the the EU have designated certain types a day the
personal pure personal data is anything that can identify an individual and one
of the weird things about this is in the past if you were emailing someone at a
company address like John at XYZ company that wasn't considered a personal
under-under gdpr any privacy it is if it identifies an individual and that also
goes for IP address as well so the same yeah yeah
the other data which is considered special is things like details of Health
ethnic origin sexual preferences stuff like that which most I wouldn't think
any of you are going to collect no that's why I say it's a bit easier you
can have name address telephone number etc what's then what but what can you
just explain Chris what GDP are is in layman's terms and where it comes in
with a budget you just mentioned II privacy can you mention like how they
fit together okay GDP are is the collection of data
whether or not it's electronic it can be on paper and paper records are all
covered by GDP our privacy really just covers email SMS fax movies or not some
people some companies still use faxes so anything that is transmitted
electronically okay so does that distinction make it a little bit easier
to understand definitely yeah okay so people have been discussing do I
need to do double opt-in whoo that's a big one um but excitement the answer is
no in general unless it's specific to a country because someone is freely
putting in their email and name they are consenting however the twist in all of
this is if you want to collect them to market to them in the future
you have to get specific consent so underneath that you're going to have to
have a little box which says I agree to you sending me marketing information you
can you know do it up the box cannot be pre ticked person has to physically take
themselves yeah if a dunk took it it can't go on to an autoresponder this
sounds like the devil has taken over the marketing industry because I'm a I've
already having difficulty with with conversion has has there been any
testing done on this adding this on there and how much of a decrease of a
conversion are people getting from this already well there's two things here if
someone is adding to your list to get a free product you can't market and
they've not typically consent to be marketed to you can send them the free
product not a problem and anything related to that free
product it's okay so that's what's called a legitimate interest okay yeah
so they've consented to receive that but they haven't consented to receive a
whole stack of follow up emails that are going to try and flog them something at
you not as we know sorting is where I want to strangle the guys who actually
make this regulation because the only reason the only reason I'm giving them
that free thing is so that I can email them over and over it
yeah this is where it turns it on its head it's a little bit like double
opt-in there's a thought on double opt-in that if someone double opt-in
they're really interested yeah yeah yes that's the kind of thought paying MBA so
if they consent to more marketing information and you come you can you
know put some words around that to say you know it might be related products
because you're obviously interested in whatever what the free product is about
or what have you all the free software or whatever and
they consent to it then they can go straight on the
autoresponder now the big thing about this also is it affects cookies so these
cookies so they are even thinking now that there's going to be a big change in
browsers and browsers will block cookies until someone gives consent Wow
yeah is this just speculation or is this actually gonna happen cuz that's that's
a big the cookie ident can identify people who come back on to your website
mm-hmm so it can be personal information for analytic purposes it's not a problem
but for identity on a website it is where and what separates us Oh what
separates those two those two factors well the analytics hasn't got any
because that's a Google Analytics etc it doesn't really identify an IP address it
it just says yeah this person's been on this website that's it there's no
personally identifiable information yeah yeah okay and a cookie if you drop a
cookie on for going back to a website that is personal information in there
because that's picking up an IP address so an IP and all your body address would
be seen as personally identifiable that's right that's right blimey
there's good news Chris then they're interested it's a little bit like the
double opting yeah yeah in a way let's not jump on Chris because buying someone
the other thing as well is if you are marketing to EU resident
citizens and your autoresponder is stationed outside the EU you have to
tell them that their details are being stored outside the EU
okay now you should also have a privacy policy a written policy saying what you
will and won't do with that data that actually brings up another point Chris
because what I've noticed in a lot of these articles that I've been reading so
I've been reading way too many articles
says that you have to notify them on the page that they're divulging their
information on the purpose and the future intent of them of what you'll
you'll be using that information for so now it just seems like you're gonna be
spending most of your time devising a a description of what you're gonna be
doing with the information they're providing that is you are gonna be
marketing to them and how often and all of these things so what is a good well
that's the consent isn't it that's this tick box because that's telling them
that you're gonna market to them you've got to hold the data to market to them
now does it have to be a certain length what no kind of maybe is there a
checklist that we have to go through if you can maybe give us a ABCD breakdown
of what needs to be included on that um oh basically a again the privacy policy
can be very much like a lot of the standard ones that are around at the
moment saying you're not going to sell them you're not going to sell their data
on what have you unless they agree to it so there's there's bits within bits here
so it it depends on what that website is collecting the information for yeah it's
it's to market to them so you've got to get consent
naca dick from the individuals point of view if you go on a website I mean I get
I I have quite a few different email addresses from all my time on and off
marketing on the internet and I get spammed to death
absolutely so you still need the unsubscribe in emails if someone in the
privacy policy you tell them if you consent to being marketed to you can
unsubscribe at any time now because let me ask this question because I think it
brings up a broader question of because it's it's really to prevent people
receiving emails that they don't want to receive I've always assumed that if I'm
giving you my email I'm assuming that you're sending me marketing emails now
now from what I've gathered technically speaking I think spam has a very wide
definition apart from what it used to kind of mean unsolicited messages over
and over again without you even prompt initially so I never I never even gave
you my email address and your contacting me is kind of what my initial thought of
what spam in general was not that I get messages daily even from so are you
saying that even if I've technically given you my information and agree to it
I could still be a victim if you will of spam
if someone doesn't obey the rules and sells that information on the other
problem that you've also got and I've come across this quite a bit where
people have complained basically because they've gone on to a website they've
said yes to the terms and conditions without reading them we will do that now
in a lot of them there is a little thing that says by agreeing to these terms and
conditions you agree that we can sell your data on or we can email you
products from third parties okay there isn't a tip box for them to say
like that's just in the general terms now a lot of the time those people are
then selling not selling the leads on they are selling a service to other
people saying we will you give us a an HTML email we'll send it on your behalf
we will have an unsubscribe on it etc but they could end up on your website
giving you information or or you could send a letter to them through normal
post yeah sort of scenario people do not remember where they've put their details
so I know that my old company have had they get a lot of complaints from people
because they do not realize where they've put their data so this consent
thing is is a little bit harder because of that because you're going free v
you've basically got to prove that you got clean you have to keep a record of
that consent G and if I'm the target by the way I just want to take this pen and
shove it in my eye right now all right so we've got a we've got a can I just
mention here that breaches breaches for us in the UK we have to report
breaches of the data within 70 hours of 70 70 days I think it is actually being
found about it but for breaches which you don't report the maximum fine and
although this is at the top end the absolute maximum fine is 20 million
euros that's million all right or four percent of global turnover whichever is
the higher which everything well Siobhan says
there is a lower level of 10 million
have to break out my other wallet that spear tree okay so I mean the 20 million
etc can hit people like Facebook Amazon blah blah blah curse their global okay
the smaller guy is not going to have it that hard and I know the UK's
information Commissioner is said yeah we're not going to go hard on people
even if they don't comply from day one as long as in in the UK here they have
to have having all written down they have to have their data flows written
down in a document to prove where it goes what they do with it they have to
have agreements with and the autoresponder people who will look after
that data so it's due diligence on the autoresponder and that applies to any
anyone in the UK in the EU who is marketing man I thought we look a things
up on this call and make it easier again again we are not legal professional do
not we do not bear any responsibility for anything regarded GDP our and your
business no you must you must consult your own
legal professionals oh yeah but but Chris okay listen listen okay I just
want I just want to to go to to reason with you a little bit here so you're
turning me into the EU now listen I will project the the regulation upon you for
for just the time being and then we can become friends again
yeah now we've got all these things that we need to abide by by May 25th and
obviously by your description of everything it's not very simple it's not
laid out it's not a black-and-white type of a situation
every business model will have to adjust accordingly
yeah what does what does the little guy do you know such as myself a solo
entrepreneur that really has no black and white rules to follow how can i as
best as possible maintain a level of integrity within my business as to not
get any legal penalties laid upon me what it's not just legal penalties it's
complaints from individual as well okay because that's the first point I mean if
you get a complaint from an individual and said ah take me off your database
you've got to take them off the database that can be your autoresponder or what
have you that can be via an unsubscribe button in an e-mail or what have you but
the overriding thing is to get on that auto responder they have got to consent
to being marketed to now how you frame that in the wording for that those with
the tick box depends on the type of business that you're in that is your
main thing you know in the USA I think you are required to have a privacy
policy right yeah those are also other disclaimers that I know you have to do
for if you're selling a product that you're saying use this and make money
then there's other disclaimers in there back that's part of part of either the
email that's in your privacy policy etc that gives more of the nitty-gritty
but this consent aspect which probably some people have stuck in the privacy
policy saying we will market you other products which we feel might you know be
useful to you or information or what have you
now it has to be specific it has to be explicit that is the big difference so
you need that tick box if it's going on an autoresponder and now if we're gonna
stay friends and for my understanding Chris is
retrospectively as well so if you've got a list and you what continue marks them
you've got to get that explicit consent is that yes yeah that's right um so he
stole yeah yeah I I mean I've been to my old company I have just deleted you know
believe this two hundred and fifty six thousand names and addresses and email
addresses off their database because they are so old and they never turned
into customers we're still working through it there's another twenty nine
thousand to look at I think I think what Bob sands who you've got someone who's
sitting in their bedroom they've got a hundred email addresses you said like
they're barely making any money per month they're probably not making father
what about those guys who you know they're generally debate making a few
dollars they don't want all this other stuff now this could destroy some some
people's money motivation let's this up a little bit
now um do most autoresponders pick up an IP
address yes I believe so yeah okay those IP addresses you can identify
which countries they're in mmm-hmm okay so what you can do is just delete the
ones that are in the EU I think that would require and maybe you would know
this Wayne that we contact the autoresponder company because I know
that if I've tried to split it up I haven't figured it out in response or a
weber yeah what what you do yeah what what I'll do personally is I'd use a
tracking tool by click man tick and anyone from the odd for starters I'd
focus on USA traffic to keep it simple and I'd use a click tracking tool that
just diverts other countries to Google in case anyone got
that's why foolish your marks and efforts outside you you make sure using
a tracking tool to send anyone in the EU to Google and not on your list so you
don't even get people on your list from inside the year you would that kind of
cover it that way Chris yeah yeah yeah would ya know even and I do know a
couple of big email marketers who are doing just that yeah it's quite a sad
yeah quite a sad kind of thing but luckily in most email and worldwide
global email and marketers predominately is us anyway money you know yes he's us
have UK doesn't really come into it that much anyway and really the UK's the main
one in the EU that is target because we both marketers as well that's right yeah
yeah I would think you guys are Russia instead of EU now nonsense
it's matter let me ask about the history on this because it's been around for two
years was there an event that happened that made them you know do this not
necessarily just the passing of the law was there a an event or series of events
like data breaches or anything I know recently we had to deal with the
Cambridge analytic a situation with Facebook right yeah and and now what is
happening here in the u.s. is talks about regulation for Facebook right and
of course if facebook is the face of really social media it's still the
monster out of every platform there is and regulations that are going to happen
due to it we can we can automatically assume that any any other Trailblazer
behind Facebook will follow suit right with with being regulated and things of
that nature and we can see that it's because of this Cambridge analytic and
and something that happened even a few years prior to that with other data
breaches that causing these regulations to occur is
there something that actually happened in the EU in the past that caused them
to say okay we need to make this a regulation right offhand I can't think
of anything I mean Google has used data on people quite a lot but I can't think
of anything offhand it's that that sort of sparked this off bearing in mind that
the the this was all style off two years ago so my memory is not that good being
an older person that's the thing that with the data breaches that kind of says
is why why they've done it because you have to report them so they thrive is
your GDP are to think of that like basically if your email is get hacked
you've got a report that - ji-yong within seventy no we know that lots of
hacks in the past from all sorts I mean even the UK's National Health System is
being hacked yeah we know various other company websites have been hacked all
over the world so I think it's a reaction to that I suspect that the US
and other countries may will follow and pick up on what the EU are doing I think
they will you know I hope they do to our pain
I live in the great state and country of Texas
okay where we kind of follow our own rules we like our guns and we have
people who are sticklers for something known as the Constitution and the Bill
of Rights and somehow someway marketers will figure out a way to make it connect
and say this is unconstitutional and of course figure out another reason to
protest there's quite honestly this is gonna hurt a lot of businesses small
businesses luckily luckily luckily I'm still in the
beginning stages of my business and and to start over is really not that big of
a deal other than it's just gonna it's just gonna suck you know it's just gonna
okay fine you know what I deletes you know half of my email list it wasn't
that big to begin with I can do that I can deal with that I make I make money
anyway so but you know that does bring me to something else because I'm a
product creator right for affiliate marketing and I recruit affiliates to
sell my product for me and yeah that does mean that when they sell it I
receive the email address the way it currently is set up when that is when
when that scenario is played out what needs to be done on like a sales page
I'm not necessarily collecting I'm not collecting emails initially they're
purchasing a product and then they're getting added to my email list after the
fact do I have yeah I'll put something on a
sales page right okay yeah because your that's where you're gonna
collect their personal data Wow okay so you can keep that one off
data if you are offering a guarantee that's exact keyword data for a
legitimate interest to fulfill a legal guarantee yeah yeah the something I was
reading when I was delving into this area today
was a working party were sort of putting together what they thought because there
are still a lot of gray areas in this legislation such as if someone buys
something from you okay forget the marketing angle for the moment they
bought something from you you've given them a guarantee what have you one year
two years how long do you keep that data for now their thought was if it's a
short guarantee you've get rid of it off for about two years you delete them
okay now one of the things that you got to think about here and you think of
Facebook think of Amazon they if you go back on to their website they're feeding
adverts to you which is marketing they're using personal information if
someone doesn't want that and opts out of it doesn't take the consent box they
aren't going to see those adverts I know in the UK a hell of a lot of business is
now done online I do all virtually all my shopping not food shopping but
virtually everything else online no I'm probably gonna consent to be marketed to
because I want to know about new products and stuff like that yeah people
are used to seeing adverts if all of a sudden they're not seeing that verts is
this gonna bring the search engines back in so do you now does SEO become even
more important I hope not so I'm just throwing things up in the air I don't
know I'm thinking trying to think forward and say what's going to happen
because people are used to seeing adverts online they buy a lot of things
I mean it's a little bit like hearing the checkout in the supermarket and they
put all those nice things by the checkout and very often you'll buy
something off there which you didn't intend to buy it's exactly the same
thing with fielding those adverts up on Amazon or wherever so people you know it
people's mindsets will change yeah they may well end up by consenting to stuff
like this if they don't then you're back to search engines on you but they know
that well they have to consume this is we're just behind I will run at a time
they will but so it's literally if they search
something and there's an advert that's following them they've been cooked in
whatever that could completely change as well so basically the whole online
business this isn't this is changing online busy online business is done
because things are going to change so vastly you know Facebook if they can't
show ads they got make their money some other way just gonna have to pay so it
just changes so many different aspects of what will you do is a big big change
a big big thing yeah yeah oh yeah yeah
hey have those commercials on TV from pharmaceutical companies about about
medicine we don't talk about all the side effects no the us probably you've
probably seen those commercials maybe on YouTube or something but in the u.s.
they have these these commercials where they're talking about these medications
that are supposed to make you feel better but then they list you know
thirteen different side effects you know you know explosive diarrhea vomiting
blood from your eye sockets and then possibly death right I might as well
take those pills for no reason then deal with this stuff oh it's pretty much the
same as me to be honest me it's and I think the thing is is well there's no
instruction book if you don't mean because I've read some of it and you
just saying what on earth does it even mean so that's why you have to get legal
advice a solicitor and to go through it and not listen to a show like this and
take advice on
we are not lawyers we just here for your entertainment and for you to dig it
further for yourself hire somebody hire professional somebody who can actually
talk to these things legally and make sure that your business is on the
up-and-up the only legal advice I would give you
is terrible legal advice like ignore it you know like ignore TPR for now let me
see what happens hopefully fly under the radar it's kind
of like bootlegging movies on the internet boxers you guys you guys are no
fun okay because you guys did this with the Kodi box as well okay I own a Kodi
box and the thing is the best thing in the world okay there's a gray area in
the law that actually allows me to own a Kodi box even with the questionable
software on it because I'm not hosting the files locally because I'm streaming
it I'm still legal they were selling these Kodi boxes in the mall at the mall
at the local shop Mall no prize big ol thing stop paying cable right I
mean I haven't paid for two years the EU is no fun so what he's trying to say
Chris is how do we get round it like the Kuti box again no no no we're not saying
that legal advice for you to take my friend
please don't and you can send you can send all of your complaint email to
wayne crow at traffic domination com filled all of the erroneous that is it
thank you so much Chris for being on the show I appreciate your help you know
this is a very serious subject guys please do take it seriously even though
we were having fun today we were joking around today this is a very serious
issue that you can lose your business you can lose a lot
more than your business if if you do not comply with these regulations in the EU
as far as the traffic domination podcast and your host Wayne Crowe and Robert
Reese we are out of here see you next week guys take a go bye bye bye
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