>> FORMER U.S. SENATOR FRED HARRIS, A LONG TIME RESIDENT
OF CORRALES, WAS OKLAHOMA'S U.S. SENATOR FROM '64 TO '73.
APPOINTED BY PRESIDENT LYNDON JOHNSON TO THE NATIONAL
ADVISORY COMMISSION ON CIVIL DISORDERS, ALSO KNOWN AS THE
KERNER COMMISSION.
THE COMMISSION'S REPORT WHICH CAME OUT IN 1968, EXAMINED
CONDITIONS OF POVERTY AND RACE IN THE COUNTRY.
SENATOR HARRIS WILL SOON RELEASE A BOOK ON THE 50TH
ANNIVERSARY OF THE KERNER COMMISSION REPORT.
CORRESPONDENT RUSSELL CONTRERAS SAT DOWN WITH
SENATOR HARRIS TO TALK ABOUT HIS HISTORY IN POLITICS.
>> SENATOR FRED HARRIS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US HERE.
TAKE ME BACK TO 1967.
WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE COUNTRY IN OUR URBAN AREAS AND
HOW DID YOU RESPOND AS SENATOR.
>> WE HAD A RIOT IN THE BLACK SECTION OF LOS ANGELES, THE
YEAR BEFORE.
AND SOME PEOPLE SAID -- NO, IT WAS '65 AND SOME PEOPLE HAD
SAID IT WAS A KIND OF A ONE OFF INCIDENT AND OTHERS SAID,
THIS IS A HARBINGER OF THINGS TO COME.
WELL, IT WAS THE LATTER.
IN SUMMER OF 1967 IN DETROIT AND NEWARK AND THEN ABOUT 20
SOMETHING OTHER CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY, WE HAD JUST
EXPLOSIONS IN THE BLACK SECTIONS OF AMERICA'S CITIES.
I WAS A MEMBER OF THE SENATE, WITH ROBERT KENNEDY, THE
RIBICOFF COMMITTEE LOOKING INTO URBAN PROBLEMS AND
PROBLEMS OF RACISM AS WELL AS POVERTY.
AND, SO, I WENT THROUGH THE SENATE FLOOR AND INTRODUCED A
RESOLUTION TO CREATE A BLUE RIBBON CITIZENS COMMISSION TO
LOOK INTO THESE RIOTS, NOT JUST ONLY FROM THE LAW AND
ORDER STANDPOINT, BUT ALSO TRYING TO GET AT THE DEEPER
CAUSES OF WRETCHED POVERTY IN THE CENTRAL CITIES AND RACISM.
AND THE RESOLUTION CAME UP IN THE SUBCOMMITTEE I CHAIRED,
BUT THEN IT OCCURRED TO ME THAT LYNDON JOHNSON HIMSELF,
THE PRESIDENT, COULD DO THIS BY EXECUTIVE ORDER.
SO I GOT WORD TO HIM AND URGED HIM TO DO THAT AND THAT IS
WHAT EVENTUALLY HE DID, PRETTY MUCH USING SOME OF THE SAME
WORDS I HAD.
>> WHEN THE PRESIDENT ANNOUNCED THIS COMMISSION, HE
DID CALL YOU AND SAY HE WANTED YOU ON IT.
WHAT DID YOU DO?
>> KIND OF FUNNY.
I HAD -- THERE HAD BEEN AN ANNOUNCEMENT THAT THE
PRESIDENT WAS GOING TO HAVE A NATIONWIDE BROADCAST TO
APPOINT THIS BLUE RIBBON COMMISSION AND SO I HAD
BROUGHT A TELEVISION INTO OUR LIVING ROOM AND INVITED SOME
NEIGHBORS, FRIENDS OF MINE, TO COME OVER AND WATCH THE
PRESIDENT'S SPEECH.
AND ABOUT 10 MINUTES BEFORE HE WAS TO GO ON THE AIR, MY
YOUNGEST DAUGHTER, LAUREL, SHE WAS IN, I THINK, IN THE THIRD
GRADE.
SHE CAME RUNNING OUT OF THE KITCHEN WHERE WE HAD A WALL
TELEPHONE AND SAID, DADDY, PRESIDENT JOHNSON IS ON THE
PHONE FOR YOU. AND SO I SAID, IS IT THE
PRESIDENT OR IS IT HIS SECRETARY?
NO, IT IS THE PRESIDENT.
HE SAID, THIS IS PRESIDENT JOHNSON, LET ME TALK YOUR
DADDY.
SO, I WENT IN AND TO THE WALL TELEPHONE AND I SAID, YES,
SIR, MR.
PRESIDENT.
AND HE SAID, FRED, I HOPE YOU'RE GOING TO WATCH
TELEVISION.
THESE WERE HIS WORDS.
I HOPE YOU'RE GOING TO WATCH TELEVISION TONIGHT.
I SAID, I AM.
HE SAID, I AM GOING TO APPOINT THAT COMMISSION YOU HAVE BEEN
TALKING ABOUT.
I SAID, WELL, I THINK THAT IS THE THING TO DO.
HE SAID, I AM GOING TO PUT YOU ON IT.
I SAID, WELL, I NEVER EXPECTED THAT, BUT I'LL DO THE BEST I
CAN.
HE SAID, NOW DON'T BE LIKE SOME OF YOUR COLLEAGUES, HE
SAID.
I APPOINT THEM TO THINGS AND THEY NEVER SHOW UP.
I SAID, WELL, I'LL SHOW UP.
I'LL WORK AT IT.
HE SAID, ANOTHER THING, FRED, I SAID YES, SIR,
MR.
PRESIDENT, HE SAID, I WANT YOU TO
REMEMBER YOU'RE A JOHNSON MAN, AND I SAID, I AM A JOHNSON
MAN.
HE SAID, IF YOU FORGET IT, I'LL TAKE MY POCKETKNIFE AND
CUT YOUR BLANKS OFF.
HE DID NOT SAY BLANKS.
HE SAID, YOU UNDERSTAND THAT KIND TALK OF TALK, DON'T YOU?
I SAID, YES I DO.
SO I WENT BACK TO THE LIVING ROOM AND THEY SAID, WHAT DID
HE SAY?
HE SAID, WELL, SOME OF IT WAS KIND OF PERSONAL.
IT TURNED OUT, OF COURSE, JOHNSON DID NOT LIKE OUR
EVENTUAL REPORT THAT KERNER COMMISSION AS IT CAME TO BE
CALLED, AND I THINK I HAD FORGOTTEN THAT I WAS A JOHNSON
MAN.
THAT WAS REALLY SAD BECAUSE PRESIDENT JOHNSON DID MORE TO
COMBAT RACISM AND POVERTY THAN ANY PRESIDENT BEFORE OR SINCE,
BUT HE WAS MISLED ABOUT WHAT WE RECOMMENDED AND REJECTED
OUR REPORT.
>> THIS WAS A BIPARTISAN BODY.
WHAT DID YOU GUYS HOPE TO FIND?
>> WELL, WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WAS TO MAKE -- FIRST TO FIND
THE FACTS, WHAT ARE THE FACTS IN THESE CENTRAL CITIES, FOR
EXAMPLE, POLICE COMMUNITY RELATIONS, WHICH TURNED OUT TO
BE HORRIBLE, WITH ENORMOUS HOSTILITY.
WHY HAD THESE RIOTS OCCURRED IN ONE PLACE AND NOT ANOTHER?
WE NEVER WERE ABLE TO ANSWER THAT, BUT WE COULD DESCRIBE
WITH PARTICULARITY THE CONDITIONS IN THE CITIES WHERE
RIOTS HAD OCCURRED AND WE WANTED TO COME UP WITH
SOLUTIONS, WHAT WE MUST DO, TO GET AT THESE PROBLEMS OF
POVERTY AND RACISM WHICH WERE AT THE BASE OF THESE RIOTS.
>> WHEN YOU VISITED IN THE RIOT CITIES, CITIES THAT HAD
SUFFERED RIOTS AND TALKED TO BLACK RESIDENTS, WHAT DID SOME
OF THE BLACK RESIDENTS TELL YOU THE PROBLEM WAS?
>> WELL, ALL OF THEM WERE COMPLAINING, EVERYBODY WE
TALKED TO, COMPLAINED ABOUT THE POLICE.
THERE WAS ENORMOUS HOSTILITY TO THE POLICE.
AND, FOR EXAMPLE, PRESIDENT JOHNSON, AS HE TALKED TO ME
ABOUT IT SEVERAL TIMES DURING THE COMMISSION, THESE TWO
TIMES DURING THE COMMISSION MEETINGS, HE SAID HE THOUGHT
THAT THERE WAS SOME CONSPIRACY BEHIND THE RIOTS.
THAT PEOPLE LIKE H BROWN AND STOKLEY CARMICHAEL, MILITANTS
OF THE DAY, BLACK MILITANTS, HE THOUGHT THEY SOMEHOW
PLANNED THESE RIOTS AND CALLED FOR THEM BY THEIR AGITATION,
AND I TRIED TO TELL HIM, NO, THAT WASN'T TRUE, THAT THERE
WERE THOUSANDS OF H BROWNS AND STOKLEY CARMICHAELS THAT
NEITHER HE FOR I HAD EVER HEARD OF, BUT THERE WAS SUCH
HOSTILITY AND THE CONDITIONS WERE SO TERRIBLE IN THESE
CENTRAL CITIES, THAT ALMOST ANY RANDOM SPARK COULD SET OFF
A RIOT AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAD OCCURRED.
>> WHEN YOU VISITED THE CITIES, YOU HAD ALREADY SPOKEN
OUT ABOUT POVERTY AND INEQUALITY BEFORE THIS.
WHEN YOU VISITED CITIES, WHAT CHANGED IN YOU WHEN YOU SAW
THE POVERTY?
>> WELL, IT DID NOT SURPRISE ME.
I EXPECTED THAT BUT IT REALLY SORT OF PUT FACES ON THE
RACISM AND POVERTY, TO SEE THE ACTUAL RESULTS.
ALSO, IT DID THIS, TOO.
FOR EXAMPLE, WE DIVIDED UP.
THE PEOPLE ON THE COMMISSION DIVIDED UP IN TEAMS AND WENT
AROUND TO THE CITIES WHERE RIOTS HAD OCCURRED.
>> MAYOR LINDSEY AND I TURNED OUT TO BE A TEAM.
>> MAYOR FROM NEW YORK?
>> YEAH, LINDSEY OF NEW YORK HE AND I WERE ACTUALLY
ACTIVIST LEADERS ON THE COMMISSION AND WE WENT AROUND
TO MILWAUKEE, FOR EXAMPLE AND CINCINNATI.
I SPENT THE MORNING IN MILWAUKEE IN A BLACK BARBER
SHOP AND I TALKED TO PEOPLE AS THEY CAME IN, MEN, AND WHAT I
FOUND WAS, THESE PEOPLE HAD COME TO MILWAUKEE FAIRLY LATE,
THIS WAS TRUE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, TRYING TO BREAK A
SURGE -- BLACK PEOPLE MOVING FROM THE SOUTH INTO THE CITIES
IN THE NORTH, LOOKING FOR WORK.
AND THEY CAME TO PLACES LIKE MILWAUKEE JUST ABOUT THE TIME
THE JOBS WERE DISAPPEARING OR MOVING OUT TO THE SUBURBS OR
MOVING OVERSEAS AND SO WE TALKED ABOUT THAT WITH PEOPLE,
BUT ALSO I WOULD ASK, DO YOU FIND AS MUCH DISCRIMINATION
AGAINST AFRICAN AMERICANS IN MILWAUKEE OR BACK HOME IN
BIRMINGHAM OR WHATEVER, JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI.
AT FIRST PEOPLE WERE PUZZLED.
I FOUND OUT WHY, BECAUSE, IN MILWAUKEE, MOST OF THEM SAID
THEY NEVER SAW ANY WHITE PEOPLE.
IT WAS MORE SEGREGATED THAN THE PLACES WHERE THEY HAD COME
FROM IN THE SOUTH.
THERE WAS THAT MUCH SEGREGATION EXISTED.
TODAY, THAT IS A PROBLEM THAT IS RISING AGAIN.
OUR CITIES, OUR SCHOOLS, ARE RESEGREGATING AND THAT IS NOT
GOOD.
>> SO, AFTER WEEKS OF RESEARCH AND AFTER YOU GUYS DEBATING
AND VOTING ON THE COMMISSION, WHAT DID THE COMMISSION
FINALLY CONCLUDE?
>> WELL, THE MOST FAMOUS FINDING WAS, OUR NATION IS
MOVING TOWARD TWO SOCIETIES, ONE BLACK, ONE WHITE, SEPARATE
AND UNEQUAL.
TODAY WE WOULD ADD HISPANIC TO THAT.
BUT, ALSO, WE WENT ON TO SAY THAT THESE BLACK GHETTOS WERE
CREATED BY WHITE RACISM AND SUSTAINED BY WHITE RACISM.
AND, THAT CAME ACROSS AS A KIND OF A SHOCK TO PEOPLE,
BUT, IT WAS THE TRUTH.
WE ALSO TRIED OUR BEST TO HELP PEOPLE SEE THROUGH OUR EYES
THE KIND OF WRETCHED POVERTY, TERRIBLE HOUSING, TWO AND
THREE FAMILIES LIVING IN WHAT HAD ONCE BEEN A SINGLE FAMILY
HOME, JOBS GONE, NO PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.
INFERIOR SCHOOLS AND SO MANY OF THEM HAD COME ALREADY COME
FROM CRIMINALLY INFERIOR SCHOOLS BACK IN THE SOUTH AND
IT WAS REALLY URGENT THAT WE GET AT THESE PROBLEMS AND WE
WERE QUITE HONEST IN SAYING THAT IT WAS GOING TO TAKE A
GREAT INCREASE IN FEDERAL FUNDS TO COMBAT THEM.
WE ALSO, FOR EXAMPLE, GOT WITH THE POLICE.
WE SAID, THAT THE POLICE OUGHT TO LOOK LIKE THE PEOPLE THAT
THEY ARE POLICING.
IN OTHER WORDS, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT CAN BE
CALLED COMMUNITY POLICING.
PEOPLE WERE RIGHT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
INSTEAD, WHAT IT WAS IN THOSE DAYS, THE POLICE WERE ALL
WHITE AND COMING IN TO ENFORCE THE LAW AGAINST THE PEOPLE
THERE, SO THAT PEOPLE DIDN'T SEE THE LAW AND LAW
ENFORCEMENT AS THEIR OWN. AND WE THOUGHT THE ATTITUDES
OUGHT TO CHANGE, USE OF FORCE.
WE WERE AGAINST THE MILITARIZATION OF THE POLICE
AND WE MADE HEADWAY ON ALL THESE THINGS, RELATIONS,
POVERTY AND POLICE RELATIONS FOR A TIME, BUT THEN THAT
PROGRESS STOPPED AND WE BEGAN TO GO BACKWARDS.
>> THE REPORT THAT YOU GUYS WERE SAID TO RELEASE AT THE
END OF FEBRUARY AND BEGINNING OF MARCH IN 1968, YOU GUYS
WERE DOING BACKGROUND, BUT THE WASHINGTON POST GOT A HOLD OF
THE REPORT AHEAD OF TIME.
SOMEONE LEAKED IT TO THEM.
WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT?
>> WELL, WE HAD -- FIRST I SHOULD SAY, WE MADE A MISTAKE
IN NOT HAVING OUR HEARINGS.
WE HAD HEARINGS FOR SOMETHING LIKE 20 STRAIGHT DAYS.
WE HEARD FROM EVERYBODY LIKE ALL THE WAY FROM FBI DIRECTOR,
EDGAR HOOVER, TO MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR. AND WE MADE A
MISTAKE NOT HAVING THOSE AS PUBLIC HEARINGS.
WE ALSO MADE A MISTAKE, I THINK, OF NOT TAKING THE PRESS
WITH US AS WE WENT AROUND TO THE RIOT CITIES SO THEY COULD
SEE IT PERSONALLY.
AND WE ALSO MADE A MISTAKE, I THINK, NOT BRIEFING PRESIDENT
JOHNSON ALL ALONG SO THAT HE SAW THE SAME THINGS WE DID.
SO, WE KNEW THAT WHEN THIS REPORT CAME OUT, WHEN IT SAID
RACISM AND IT TALKED ABOUT SPENDING MORE MONEY AGAINST
POVERTY, THAT WAS GOING TO BE SOMEWHAT OF A SHOCK.
SO WE GAVE THE REPORT OUT WITH AN EMBARGO SO THAT PEOPLE
WOULD HAVE A CHANCE TO BE BACKGROUNDED AND LEARN SORT OF
WHAT WAS BEHIND OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
THEN, I THINK WITH THAT INTENT IN ORDER TO LESSEN ITS
IMPACTS, SOMEBODY LEAKED THE REPORT TO THE WASHINGTON POST
AND TRIED TO TALK THEM OUT OF USING IT, BUT THEY SAID THEY
GOT IT LEGALLY AND THEY WERE NOT GOING TO DO THAT, THEY
WERE GOING TO PUBLISH IT THE NEXT MORNING.
AND SO WE SAID, WELL, WE ARE GOING TO GIVE IT TO EVERYBODY
THEN.
IT WAS JUST ABSOLUTE CHAOS.
I REMEMBER, FOR EXAMPLE, AN AP REPORTER CALLING ME THAT
EVENING AND HE SAID, I HAVE GOT A 30 MINUTE DEADLINE.
HERE IS A REPORT THAT IS ABOUT 400 AND SOME PAGES LONG AND HE
SAID, I HAVE A 30 MINUTE DEADLINE, CAN YOU CAPSULIZE IT
FOR ME?
THE RESULT WAS THAT THE HEADLINES ALL ACROSS THE
COUNTRY, THE POST AND EVERYWHERE ELSE WERE SOMETHING
LIKE, WHITE RACISM CAUSE OF BLACK RIOTS, COMMISSION SAYS.
MY OWN FATHER, WHO LOVED ME, SMALL FARMER OUT IN WEST
OKLAHOMA, THE WAY HE HEARD THAT COMMISSION REPORT, WAS
MR.
HARRIS, OUT OF THE GOODNESS OF YOUR HEART, YOU
OUGHT TO PAY MORE TAXES IN ORDER TO HELP POOR BLACK
PEOPLE WHO ARE RIOTING IN DETROIT.
AND MY DAD'S RESPONSE WAS SOMETHING LIKE, THE HELL WITH
THAT I AM ALREADY PAYING TOO MUCH TAXES AND HE WAS RIGHT
ABOUT THAT.
WE ALSO -- WE DIDN'T MAKE CLEAR ENOUGH AND WE DID SAY IN
THE REPORT, THAT WE WERE INTERESTED IN POVERTY,
WHEREVER IT WAS, RURAL OR URBAN, WE WERE INTERESTED IN
PROBLEMS OF WHITE PEOPLE, BLACK PEOPLE, HISPANIC AND
AMERICAN INDIANS AND OTHERS, BUT MY DAD NEVER HEARD THAT
PART OF IT AND I THINK A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE DIDN'T EITHER.
HE WAS INTERESTED IN HIS LIFE AND HIS PROBLEMS RATHER THAN
THE PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN INVOLVED IN THE RIOTS.
>> PRESIDENT JOHNSON WAS SO COMMITTED TO FIGHTING POVERTY
IN THE POVERTY PROGRAMS, WHY DIDN'T HE ADOPT SOME OF THE
RECOMMENDATIONS?
>> WE HAD MADE AN APPOINTMENT WITH HIM, ALL THE CURRENT
COMMISSION AND PRINCIPAL STAFF, TO MEET WITH HIM AND
DELIVER THE REPORT AND THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN SET UP AND WE
KNOW THAT NOW, WE DIDN'T THEN, BUT SINCE FOUND THE LETTERS,
HE HAD -- THE STAFF HAD WRITTEN LETTERS FOR HIM TO
SIGN PRAISING THIS REPORT AND THANKING US AND SO FORTH, BUT
HE SAID, I AM NOT GOING TO SIGN THOSE AND HE NEVER DID.
BUT, WE UNDERSTOOD FROM THE WHITE HOUSE STAFF THAT A TEXAS
MEMBER OF CONGRESS, A CLOSE FRIEND OF JOHNSON'S, HAD SAID
TO HIM, THIS COMMISSION, THE CURRENT COMMISSION, IS GOING
TO RUIN YOU.
WE UNDERSTOOD THESE WERE HIS WORDS, THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE --
IT CONDONES AND ENCOURAGES RIOTS AND IT DOESN'T HAVE A
GOOD WORD TO SAY ABOUT ALL YOU HAVE DONE AGAINST POVERTY AND
RACISM.
ALL OF WHICH WAS FALSE BUT JOHNSON, I THINK, BELIEVED IT.
HE CANCELED THE MEETING WITH US.
WE HAD ASKED ALSO THAT HE GIVE US ANOTHER SIX MONTHS OF LIFE
SO WE CAN ADVOCATE FOR AND LOBBY FOR OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
OF COURSE, THAT NEVER HAPPENED AND AS I SAID, THAT IS A
REALLY SAD THING BECAUSE MISINFORMED, THAT IS THE
ACTION HE TOOK, JOHNSON, BUT IT IS SAD TO ME BECAUSE
JOHNSON, AS I SAID, DID MORE AGAINST POVERTY AND AGAINST
RACISM THAN ANY OF HIS PREDECESSORS OR SUCCESSORS
SINCE.
>> NOW, YOU WERE SEAT MATES WITH SENATOR ROBERT F. KENNEDY
FROM NEW YORK, AND IN 1968 POVERTY WAS ON HIS MIND, WOULD
BE UNTIL HIS ASSASSINATION DURING HIS PRESIDENTIAL
CAMPAIGN.
HOW DID HE RESPOND TO THE REPORT?
>> DURING THE STUDY, YOU KNOW, HE WAS SENATOR FROM NEW YORK
AND REALLY SAW, AS JOHNSON DID, MAYOR LINDSEY AS A
POTENTIAL RIVAL.
JOHNSON THOUGHT LINDSEY WAS GOING TO RUN AGAINST HIM FOR
PRESIDENT.
HE LATER DID RERUN FOR PRESIDENT.
BUT KENNEDY SAID TO ME JOKINGLY, HE SAID, WHAT IT IS
LIKE TO WORK WITH JOHN LINDSEY, EXPECTING ME TO SAY,
WELL, YOU KNOW, HE IS JUST A DILATANT AND WHATEVER.
AND I SAID, HE IS REALLY TERRIFIC.
I SAID, HE IS REALLY ENGAGED.
HE NEVER MISSED A MEETING AND IS INVOLVED AND IDEAS ARE
TERRIFIC IN DOING SOMETHING ABOUT RACISM AND POVERTY.
AND ROBERT WAS A LITTLE BIT INCREDULOUS, BUT IT WAS GOOD
FOR HIM TO HEAR THAT, BUT HE WAS VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF THE
REPORT WHEN IT CAME OUT. AND HE CAUSED SENATOR JOE
CLARK, CHAIRMAN IN THE SENATE, TO HOLD PUBLIC HEARINGS SO
THAT WE COULD COME AND TESTIFY BEFORE THE SENATE COMMITTEE IN
FAVOR OF OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
>> MARTIN LUTHER KING IS ASSASSINATED, ROBERT KENNEDY
IS ASSASSINATED.
PRESIDENT RICHARD NIXON IS ELECTED ON A LAW AND ORDER
PLATFORM.
WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE RECOMMENDATIONS DURING HIS
PRESIDENCY?
>> WE STILL HAD PROGRESS FOR A WHILE, AS I SAID, ON RACE AND
POVERTY, BUT ABOUT THE TIME OF THE ADVENT OF THE REAGAN-BUSH
ADMINISTRATION, THAT IS WHEN THE PROGRESS STOPPED.
NIXON REALLY TRIED TO MAKE HAY OUT OF THE RIOTS, YOU KNOW,
LAW AND ORDER AND SO FORTH AND IN A WAY SORT OF SPEAKING IN
CODE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE.
AND THEY HAD A SOUTHERN STRATEGY, WHICH EVERYBODY
KNOWS NOW, AND I THINK REAGAN DID TOO, SO THAT THINGS WENT
BACKWARDS AND THAT IS THE WAY IT HAS BEEN EVER SINCE THE
ADVENT OF THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION, WITH THE
EXCEPTION OF THE TIME WHEN BILL CLINTON WAS IN, WE BEGAN
TO MAKE A LITTLE PROGRESS AGAIN, AND THEN FELL
BACKWARDS, AND THEN WHEN OBAMA CAME IN, HE MADE SOME PROGRESS
AGAIN, BUT I AM AFRAID MOVED BACKWARDS AGAIN.
>> DID WE MAKE PROGRESS DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WITH
SOME OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE EXAMINATIONS INTO
POLICE LIKE HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE?
>> PRESIDENT OBAMA APPOINTED A COMMISSION TO MAKE
RECOMMENDATIONS IN REGARD TO THE POLICE, REALLY GOOD
RECOMMENDATIONS, BUT, I DON'T THINK MUCH WAS DONE AFTER THAT
FROM THE FEDERAL LEVEL AT TRYING TO GET THEM
IMPLEMENTED.
SO, WE HAD ALL OF THESE HORRIBLE POLICE KILLINGS OF
BLACK YOUNG MEN AND NOT IN ANY INSTANCE HAS ANYBODY EVER BEEN
CONVICTED ON TRIAL, NO POLICE OFFICER, AND I THINK THERE WAS
A GREAT DEAL OF ATTITUDE CHANGES THAT IS NECESSARY AND
I THINK WE HAVE GOT TO USE LAPEL CAMERAS MUCH MORE AND
GET BACK TO COMMUNITY POLICING AGAIN.
STOP THIS MILITARIZATION OF THE POLICE, WHERE SHOOTING IS
SORT OF A FIRST -- I THINK NORMALLY WHAT YOU DO IS SEND
IN SOME TEAM THAT IS GOING TO TRY TO SORT OF CUT DOWN THE
PROBLEMS THAT ARE CONFRONTING THE POLICE IN THOSE INSTANCES,
RATHER THAN THE SWAT TEAM.
>> IT HAS BEEN 50 YEARS SINCE THE REPORT, ALMOST 50 YEARS,
YOU'RE ABOUT TO RELEASE THE 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE
REPORT, UPDATE ON RACE AND POVERTY IN AMERICA.
WHAT IS THIS NEW REPORT GOING TO TELL US?
>> QUITE SADLY, THE INEQUALITY OF INCOME AND WEALTH IN THE
COUNTRY HAS WORSENED GREATLY SINCE THE TIME OF THE PRIMARY
REPORT IN 1968.
AND, WE ARE RESEGREGATING IN OUR CITIES AND HOUSING AND IN
SCHOOLS AND THAT IS REALLY BAD.
WE FIND THAT THE INCOMES OF AFRICAN AMERICANS AND
HISPANICS AND SO FORTH, OTHER MINORITIES, HAVE NOT INCREASED
AS OTHERS HAVE AND IT TURNS OUT, ACTUALLY, IN FAIRLY
RECENT YEARS, THERE HAS BEEN A STAGNATION OF WAGES AND INCOME
FOR MIDDLE INCOME AND POOR PEOPLE GENERALLY.
THE TAXES HAVE BEEN CUT FOR RICH PEOPLE AND THERE IS AN
EFFORT NOW TO TRY TO DO MORE OF THAT.
YOU KNOW, WITH THE IDEA THAT IT STIMULATES ECONOMIC GROWTH
AND SO FORTH, WHICH WE PROVED TO BE WRONG RIGHT HERE IN NEW
MEXICO AS IN KANSAS AND ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY
OR IN THE WORLD.
SO, THINGS ARE REALLY TOUGHER.
POVERTY IS HARDER TO GET OUT OF NOW THAN IT WAS BACK IN OUR
DAY.
A LOT OF THESE MEDIATING INSTITUTIONS HAVE DISAPPEARED
IN THE CENTRAL CITIES.
PEOPLE, A LOT OF CENTRAL CITIES HAVE BEGUN TO GENTRIFY,
SO THAT POVERTY HAS BEEN SORT OF TRANSLATED OUT TO THE
SUBURBS AND IN SOME CASES, THE EXURBS, AND WE HAVE REALLY CUT
DOWN ON THE MONEY THAT WE HAVE BEEN SPENDING ON -- REAL
DOLLARS -- ON EDUCATION AND TRAINING AND ON JOB CREATION
AND SO FORTH.
AND THAT IS WHAT IS HUGELY NEEDED.
WHEN JOHN LINDSEY AND I WERE WALKING AROUND TO THESE RIOT
CITIES THEN IN 1968, WE ENCOUNTERED OFTEN ON THE
STREETS, YOUNG BLACK MEN OF THE TYPE THAT COULD HAVE BEEN
INVOLVED IN THE RIOTS IN THAT CITY AND WHAT THEY ALL SAID TO
US, ALMOST IN A CHORUS, WAS JOBS.
THEY SAID JOBS, BABY.
JOBS, BABY.
THAT IS WHAT WE NEED IS JOBS.
CINCINNATI, STREETS OF CINCINNATI, ONE BLACK MAN, ONE
GUY SAID, MR.
JOHNSON GOT ME A JOB LAST SUMMER, TALKING ABOUT
PRESIDENT JOHNSON IN THE SUMMER PROGRAM BUT THAT RAN
OUT.
HE SAID, WE NEED JOBS, BABY.
AND THAT WAS THE GREATEST NEED AND IT IS TODAY.
>> INEQUALITY AND POVERTY THAT YOU SPEAK OF TODAY, 50 YEARS
LATER, WE DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT AS A NATION; RIGHT?
>> POVERTY IS A DECISION.
YOU KNOW.
WE DECIDE WE ARE GOING TO HAVE ALL THIS POVERTY.
THAT IS NOT TRUE.
WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE IT.
WE GET OUR PRIORITIES STRAIGHT, THERE IS PLENTY OF
MONEY TO DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.
AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF JOBS THAT NEED DOING THAT WE OUGHT
TO BE SURE, FOR EXAMPLE, WE OUGHT TO BE INVESTING IN THE
NEW KIND OF JOBS IN TECHNOLOGY AND WIND AND SOLAR AND ENERGY,
ALTERNATIVE ENERGY, AND SO FORTH, PLENTY OF JOBS LIKE
THAT, AND CHILD CARE AND PARTICULARLY IN EDUCATION, AND
HEALTH.
WE HAVE GOT PLENTY OF JOBS THAT NEED DOING AND THERE IS A
LOT OF PEOPLE THAT NEED THOSE JOBS.
>> SENATOR FRED HARRIS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, WE REALLY
APPRECIATE IT.
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