It's the Real News Network.
I'm Greg Wilpert coming to you from Quito, Ecuador.
Ten years ago, most of Latin America was governed by center-left progressive or even leftist
governments.
For example, Cristina Fernandez in Argentina, Evo Morales in Bolivia, Rafael Correa in Ecuador,
Fernando Lugo in Paraguay, Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua, Manuel Zelaya in Honduras, and
Lula da Silva in Brazil, just as an example.
And Hugo Chavez, of course, in Venezuela.
Since then, the so-called 'pink tide' has receded quite dramatically.
Of these 10 governments that were left of center, only four remain.
Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela, Morales in Bolivia, Vazquez in Uruguay, and Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua.
What happened?
Some would argue that the U.S. played an important role in at least some of these changes.
Joining me to explore the role of the U.S. in Latin America is Mark Weisbrot.
Mark is the co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, and is the author
of the book "Failed: What the Experts Got Wrong About the Global Economy."
He's also the president of the organization Just Foreign Policy.
Thanks for being here again, Mark.
Thanks, Greg.
Thanks for having me.
So before we get into the role of the U.S. in Latin America, it's useful maybe to take
a quick look at the impact that the leftist or center-left governments had on Latin America.
What would you say were the main achievements or the main consequences of their governments
in some of those countries?
Well, if you look at the region as a whole, the poverty rate dropped from 44 to 28 percent.
That was from around 2003-2013.
And that was after the two decades prior where poverty had actually increased, there was
no progress at all.
So that was a huge change, and it was accomplished in different countries in different ways.
You know, there were large increases in public investment in Bolivia and Ecuador.
In Brazil you had also some increase in public investment , big increases in the minimum
wage.
You know, every country did different things to help bring healthcare, and increase, in
some countries, education, access to education.
And there were a whole lot of reforms.
Changes in macroeconomic policy.
Getting rid of the IMF.
So there were a lot of different things that these governments did that prior governments
were either unable or unwilling to do to improve people's living standards during a period
of higher economic growth, which they also contributed to.
And so how has Latin America changed now since then, when right-wing governments took over
most of the continent?
Well, you have different things that have changed.
I mean, one is, of course, they're implementing, as you would expect, right-wing reforms.
Trying to cut pension system, the pension in Brazil, passing a constitutional amendment
which, you know, even most economists in the world wouldn't support in Brazil, which prohibits
the government from increasing spending beyond the rate of inflation.
You have, you know, huge increases in utility prices in Argentina, laying off thousands
of public sector workers.
So everywhere where the right has come back, you do have some regressive changes.
And so how has the U.S. contributed to these changes, and what goals would you say is the
U.S. pursuing in the area?
Well, I think the U.S. has contributed in so many ways it would take an hour at least
to summarize just some of this history.
But I think the U.S. has been involved in, in most of these countries in various ways.
Obviously in Venezuela they've been involved since the coup in 2002, and they tried to
overthrow the government and tried to help people topple the government on several occasions
there.
In Brazil they supported the coup against Dilma, the parliamentary coup.
So they didn't do that strongly, but they sent enough signals, for example, I've mentioned
this before on this show, right as the House was voting to impeach Dilma without actually
presenting a crime that she committed, the head of the Foreign Relations Committee from
the Senate came and met with the number three official from the U.S. State Department, Tom
Shannon.
And then of course in August of that year, the Secretary of State John Kerry went down
there and had a press conference with the Acting Foreign Minister Jose Serra.
And they, of course, talked about how great relations with the U.S. were going to be before
Dilma was actually removed from office.
So these were ways of endorsing the coup.
And of course, the Department of Justice contributed to , the FBI, the Department of Justice contributed
to the investigation that was instrumental in imprisoning Lula.
Now, what they did in that investigation we don't know exactly, but we do know enough
about it to know that it wasn't a neutral investigation.
That is, the investigation did end up decapitating the Workers' Party for now, first helping
get rid of Dilma, but more importantly, or more substantially, in terms of its contribution,
they they helped put Lula in prison and prevent him from running for office.
And in other countries, in Paraguay, the U.S. helped in the consolidation of that parliamentary
coup by organizing within the Organization of American States.
In Honduras is probably the biggest role that the U.S. has played, both in consolidating
the military coup in 2009, Hillary Clinton acknowledged her role in making sure that
President Zelaya, the democratically elected president, would not return to office, and
then more recently in November they helped consolidate the results of an election which
pretty much all observers regarded as stolen.
Those are just a few of the examples.
I mean, I guess I didn't even mention Argentina, where other branches of government were involved
as well as the executive, but the executive cut off lending from multilateral development
banks such as the Inter-American Development Bank, and tried to block loans at the World
Bank, as well.
And they restored everything as soon as the right-wing government was elected.
And then there was Judge Griesa in New York, who took all of Argentina's, over 90 percent
of Argentina's creditors, hostage in order to squeeze them so that the government would
pay off the vulture funds.
And this was very political, because he also lifted the injunction as soon as you had the
right-wing government.
And I think this is very important, because obviously it's not necessarily a conspiracy
of all these branches of government.
The legislative branch was involved in this as well, in the United States.
But they all have the same mindset, and they're all trying to get rid of these left governments,
and they had a massive contribution.
I mean, Argentina, that did contribute to the downfall of Cristina Kirchner.
It contributed to balance of payments problems that they had there.
So this was important, and it's totally ignored here in the United States.
And then why was it ignored in the United States?
I mean, what is it about U.S. media coverage, and why is there so little coverage of U.S.
role and Latin America?
Well, you know, maybe you should interview some of the reporters who cover it, if they're
willing to answer that question.
I think that it's it's complicated in some ways, but in some ways it's very simple.
First of all, for U.S. intervention anywhere in the world they have a kind of a smoking
gun standard.
So you know, we have in our criminal justice system the standard of beyond a reasonable
doubt.
But this is a much higher standard.
So nothing is really discussed in terms of U.S. intervention unless it's really a smoking
gun, where they're caught red-handed in a way that nobody could deny.
And that almost never happens.
So in Venezuela, for example, in 2002 when you had the coup, you had State Department
and CIA documents which documented the involvement of the United States.
They helped fund and train the people who did the coup, and they made statements following
the coup that they knew were false in order to help the coup consolidate itself, and they
failed in that case.
But you know, in Haiti in 2004, which I hadn't even mentioned, they took the president and
put him on a rendition plane, and flew him out of the country.
That was in broad daylight.
But in any case, they have a story that's not at all believable, and the press kind
of accepts that and never looks back.
Whenever they mentioned, you know, Chavez complained about the coup, and it was a major
obvious source of bad relations with Venezuela, but they always just reported it as an allegation
of a figure that they of course were discrediting at every turn.
So that's kind of how they report all of these.
When they report the facts at all, they put it in the context that makes it look like
there wasn't any intent, or any real effect of U.S. policy in the region.
But mostly it's like reporting on Ukraine and never mentioning Russia, you know, it's
as if the United States doesn't have any real influence in the Americas, and of course anybody
knows they have an enormous influence.
GREG WILPERT: So what would you say are some of the implications for the foreseeable future
of this U.S. policy towards Latin America?
MARK WEISBROT: Well, right now, of course, they're still involved.
And you have intervention in Mexico, for example.
U.S. officials have already said how worried they are that AMLO, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador,
who is the frontrunner in the upcoming election in July.
And he's probably going to win, but they're already trying to undermine him, lobbying
accusations of Russia involvement, which is the new trend.
Of course, completely unsubstantiated.
In Venezuela they're doing something probably never done in the last 50 years, openly calling
for a military coup, and actually a financial embargo they've put in place, and threatening
even a worse embargo if they don't get rid of the current government.
So that's, I think, a more aggressive form of intervention than you had even under the
prior administrations.
And they're pretty open about it.
And again, most of the media seems to treat it as a non-issue.
In fact, that's actually a very important example, because there's an election going
to take place in a couple of weeks, and the media is pretending that it's not really an
election.
But you have a credible opposition candidate who's leading in the polls, and they've reached
agreement with the government on a set of procedures which are similar to almost all
the other elections they've had for hte last 20 years, and a set of guarantees, which of
course, the candidate Falcon won't recognize the election if they don't follow them.
So you have a real contested election, but the U.S. government has decided they don't
want that, and the hard-right opposition is in line with them, and so they're all pretending
there's no election at all, because they're committed to a strategy of violence, of regime
change.
GREG WILPERT: OK.
We'll certainly continue to follow this, especially the U.S. role in Latin America.
I was speaking to Mark Weisbrot, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research.
Thanks again, Mark, for joining us today.
MARK WEISBROT: Thank you, Gregory.
GREG WILPERT: And thank you for joining the Real News Network.
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